Re: [tied] Re: Latin barba in disaccord with Grimm's Law?

On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 22:23:04 -0700 (PDT), Sean Whalen
<stlatos@...> wrote:

>--- Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:02:42 -0700 (PDT), Sean
>> Whalen
>> <stlatos@...> wrote:
>>
>> >--- Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >> No, I'm saying there is no o > a in Armenian.
>>
>> What there is in Armenian is a marked tendency to
>> favour the
>> oblique (weak) stem (cf. for instance barjr <
>> *bherg^h- ~
>> *bhr.g^h-, etc.):
>
> I think e>o after p/b/bh; for many IE languages.
>This is too common for me to accept any other
>explanation.

There is no such development in Armenian (berem < *bher-,
bekanem < *bheg-, etc.).

>> >aytnum vs oidos- Gk
>>
>> Greek oideo: has o-grade (causative-iterative), and
>> oi~dos
>> is an o-grade thematic noun.
>
> No, I checked two sources which have it as a neuter,
>just as I thought (*h3eidos).

Yes, I should have checked. In any case, the root is
*h2eid- (Arm. ayt, aytnum, Lat. aemidus) ~ *h2oid- (Grk.
oidos, oideo:, oidma) ~ *h2id- (Latv. idra).

>> The Armenian verb is
>> based on
>> the e-grade root (or zero-grade) *h2eid- ~ *h2id- (>
>> ayt-),
>> LIV 258.
>
> I don't believe *h2o remains; instead *h2o > h2a.

Certainly not.

>> >ayn vs oino-/e:- Gk
>>
>> Not sure what the connection is supposed to be. The
>> Arm.
>> demonstratives ays, ayd, ayn (besides sa, da, na,
>> -s, -d, -n
>> and soyn, doyn, noyn) consist of the basic elements
>> *k^(i),
>> *t(o) and *(-)no. The origin of ay- is unclear.
>
> Well, miayn "only" was enough to convince me.

What's the connection between a prefix ay- and a postfix
-in?

> Are there any cases of PIE *oi you think made it
>into Armenian?

Of course: me:z "urine" < *moig^hos, for instance.

>> >atamn vs odont- Gk
>>
>> Zero grade *&1dn.(t)-mn.t-ós > atamán (G). Cf.
>Olsen
>> 505.
>
> Some Mycenean forms may indicate *down.t- (I
>reconstruct v not w) without original connection to
>"eat". Why would h1 appear as a here?

That's the standard Armenian reflex of a vocalized
laryngeal.

>> *&1noh3mn > anu(w)n (/m/ > /w/ before or after /o:/,
>> Olsen
>> 132). Or perhaps zero-grade *&1nh3mn. (= Slavic
>> *inmin >
>> jImeN)
>
> Where is this form from?

Oblique (e.g. genitive *h1nh3mnós). The original paradigm
was NA *h1nóh3mn., G *h1nh3mnós, L *h1nh3méni.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...