[tied] Re: PIE *pel- 'to sell' < - > 'to buy'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
<akonushevci@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Abdullah Konushevci"
> > <akonushevci@> wrote:
> >
> > > Participles that end in –së in Albanian are: <me pasë> `to
> have',
> > > <me rrasë> `to squeeze, jam, stuff', <m'u qasë> `to approach',
> <me
> > > plasë> 'to burst, blew up' (see Orel, AED) and their ending –

së

> > was
> > > supposed to be from suffix –t-yo > PAlb. -tja, except <pasë>
> that
> > is
> > > supposed, according to H. Pedersen, to be from participle *pot-
> to,
> > > that justifies *-tt- > Alb. /s/. I am not aware for other

cases

> > and
> > > I will be very grateful if you could offer some others,

because

> > > testis unus, testis nullus.
> > >
> > > Konushevci
> > >
> >
> >
> > I. Hamp 'suspect' the same rule:
> >
> > "On dental-plus-dental (pp. 76-78), Indic tt and Iranian st

point

> to
> > *tst (which we see in Hittite); see also A. Meillet, Dialectes
> > indoeuropéens 60. Greek st and Balto-Slavic st point to *tst,
> > according to Meillet, op. cit. 61. Italic, Keltic, and Germanic,
> > however, share ss (which could conceivably come from a mediate
> *ts).
> > Porzig refers (p. 77) to "die Lücke unserer Kenntnis beim
> > Armenischen und Albanischen." Meillet (p. 57), however, has st

for

> > Albanian, Illyrian, Thracian, and Phrygian. The truth is that
> > Albanian shows a present-day s (pasë 'had [participle]',
> > besë 'faith, loyalty'); see Hamp, KZ 1961:77.252-253. This must

go

> > back to a groove affricate, perhaps *ts. "
> >
> >
> > even besë-example above seems to be wrong...
> >
> >
> >
> > II. Interesting also is Hamp's position on our discussed topic:
> >
> > "mjal-të (p. 203) is an interesting case where careful dialect
> study
> > pays off. In a few villages of Greece that show the contrast,

and

> in
> > reflexes in some enclaves of Italy, we find that we have
> > mjáltë 'honey', in contrast to báh?të 'mud'. Thus the first is

not

> > an original *lt cluster, but has lost a vowel by syncope; on the
> > other hand, the l (not orthographic ll) must come from an old
> > cluster, and *ll is the only plausible one. The etymon is, then,
> the
> > Latin word, and not Indo-European. Thus, Albanian here goes with
> > Balto-Slavic, Tocharian, and Aryan, after all. Culturally, this
> > gains in interest when we recall that Jokl (Linguistisch-
> > kulturhistorische Untersuchungen aus dem Bereiche des

Albanischen

> > 289-296 [Berlin, 1923]) has traced bletë 'bee' to Latin
> *melle:tum."
> >
> > http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/balkan/ehamp.html
> >
> >
> > Marius
> ************
> Thanks for remembering me to this article, that I have read years
> ago. After Pedersen, Jokl, Cimochowski, I think that Hamp deserves
> most respect, despite his constant scepticism, even in very good
> established rules. His view about Alb. <peshk> as an inherited

word,

> as I hear from one of my friends, is almost the same. His focusing
> in Albanian idioms of Greek and Italy, the oldest attested layer

of

> Albanian language, without having in mind many lateral zones of

Gheg

> dialect, make him very vulnerable, like I think regarding the
> Albanian <mjaltë> and <bletë>.
>
> Konushevci
>

1. If the quoted dialectal above forms are correct, Hamp's above
analysis regarding 'mjal-të' is extraordinary ...I would say so
extraordinary that "finally doesn't matter (I mean: for me, when I
read it) if 'mjal-të' is inherited or not" : strange to say but that
demonstration 'its above its conclusion' and deserve all the
respect...


2. now regarding <bletë> : my 'only problem' with the 'inherited
<bletë>' is to can explain the inside-e => I will try to check
Piotr' hint => because otherwise 'we will feel obliged' to accept
Jokl's etymology :)


Marius