From: Andrew Jarrette
Message: 44769
Date: 2006-05-30
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Jarrette
wrote:
> Just as a by-the-way observation, I have noticed that many
>Swedish speakers replace their velar /k/ (written k before a, o, u,
>etc.) with a palatal-sounding plosive, almost /kj/.
So far unnoticed by me. But unspoilt ears can hear things that are
unveiled to daily listeners. You are suggesting something like Île
de France "char" as opposed to Norman "car", aren't you?-------------------Actually, upon further reflection I realized that I can only remember hearing this variant after /i(:)/, especially in the names Annika and Mikael, two Swedish friends of mine from some time ago. I should not have said "many" Swedish speakers. But then I thought I heard this palatal variant everywhere, and in other Swedes' pronunciation, after hearing them pronounce it in their names.
>But many Swedish speakers also pronounce a former palatal or
>alveolopalatal sound, their sk before front vowels (as well as sj,
>stj) as a labialized velar fricative or something similar,
>something like /xW/.
You are right that there is a tendency towards /x/ but this is still
considered vulgar. The received pronunciation is made by a special
articulation of the lips and the sibilation is entirely labial, not
velar or guttural.-----------------OK, I have to apologize for going a little out of my depth on this point. I have heard Swedish speakers pronounce this sound, and it actually sounded like an /f/ to me, but I couldn't believe that it was that sound, especially since my "Swedish for Tourists" book said the sound was the English sh-sound! Then I read somewhere about velarization of this sound in Swedish, so I acted presumptuously and made the statement that this sound is /xW/ or something like it. What actually is this sound? Is it a bilabial fricative? Is it formed by applying the upper teeth to the soft flesh below the lower lip? The times I have heard it, it has always been a mystery to me. And why did it become so labial, since to distinguish it from other palatals it could just as easily have become velar or alveolar?---------
The reason for this development from a palatal sibilant to a labial
one might be that the affricata in "tjära", tar, and its
homophone "kära", dear, lost its t part (except in Finland) and
became a plain fricative, something which made the sound
unconfortably similar to "skära", cut.
In some generations it is probable that this peculiar sibilant will
have developed into an /x/ accepted as the regular pronunciation.
And that is your QED.-------------I'm embarrassed to have to be asking, but what is the QED again? A standard dictionary? I forget.
Otherwise Danish provides a good example of changing palatals into
velars: "Kjöbenhavn" was spelt and pronounced like
Swedish "Köpenhamn" in eastern Danish dialects, but this was
repressed by influence from Jutland with a plain K pronunciation in
the XIXth century. Somewhat surprising since this was the poor,
undeveloped part of the country. Torsten has in past postings
explained it as an anti-German shibboleth after the wars in the
XIXth century. And has suggested that satem and centum similarly
might be due to a shibboleth before the split (if I remember
correctly).Lars
--------------If this was anti-German, why did they revert to non-palatal pronunciation, which is characteristic of German? Perhaps I have misunderstood his point.If centum and satem was a shibboleth before the split, does this imply that there was only one velar/palatal series, not separate velar and palatal?Andrew
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