Re: [tied] PIE athematic neuters

On 2006-03-15 10:08, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:

> According to my interpretation, due to underlying length in
> the neuter form:
>
> *kí:rd > *k^é:r(d)
> *ki:rdás > *k^r.dés

So you have shortening to zero in the weak allomorph -- that looks more
like a stipulation than something that could be proved with independent
evidence.

> (Actually, the oblique is more like *k^r.diyós, which leads
> me to believe that we're not dealing with a root noun,

I suspect the same on other grounds: *k^red-, found in fossilised
univerbations, _might_ reflect a forgotten locative, presupposing
*k^er-d-. Of course the long-vowel problem remains.

> and
> the reconstruction could be something like:
>
> *kí:rd-in > *k^é:rd(r) > *k^é:r(d)
> *ki:rd-ín-a:s > *k^@rdéyos > *k^@r.d@... > *k^r.d(i)yós
> )

Wouldn't something more orthodox be preferable, like a variant with the
suffix *-ejo-, coll. *-ijah2 (Ck kardía, non-Att. kardíe: ~ kradíe:), so
frequent in anatomical terminology, from which a secondary i-stem could
easily have been extracted? I realise full well you would derive *-ejo-
from **-in-, but my point right now is that the suffix, whatever its
ultimate etymology, is not necessarily an original part of the 'heart'
lexeme (or 'bone', for that matter).

>>The *h1we:su-s/*h1wosu type shows the difference clearly
>>(though both are static and share the "weak" (e-grade) case forms.
>
>
> Is this based on Irish fó "gut, Güte" vs. fíu "würdig"?

Yes (also Wel. gwiw for *h1we:s-u-, and OIr. adv. feib 'in excellence'
representing an old weak case, *h1wés-w-ei), plus traces of *h1wos-u in
Anatolian (Luwian and Palaic), e.g. HLuw. neuter nom./acc. <wa:su->
(also used as an adverb and occasionally substantivised).

Piotr