[tied] Re: ph3 > b PIE transformation?

--- Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:

> On 2006-03-14 10:13, Sean Whalen wrote:
>
> > I don't think h3 had any special voicing
> effect.

> > Sporadic p>b
> > between vowels seems likely (for example, if
> "drink"
> > peih3 > pih3 / poh3 (depending on accent) the p
> and h3
> > would never touch).
>
> They would in reduplications, where the root is
> usually "clipped" in one
> way or another (likewise in compounds). We have, for
> example,
> simplification of consonant cluster through loss of
> a final laryngeal in
> *g^í-g^n-e-ti (root *g^enh1, cf. *newo-g^n-ó-s
> 'newborn'), *pi-pl.-més
> (root *pleh1-), *kWé-kWl-o-s (root *kWelh1-) rather
> than **g^ig^n.h1eti
> etc.

As I see it, suffix -eh1- / -h1- creates
intransitive meaning (I won't go into complications
here).

g^én- "beget"
g^én-h1- "be begotten/descended"

kWél- "turn (tr.)"
kWél-h1- "turn (intr.)"

pel- "fill (tr.)"
pl-eh1- "fill (intr.), be full"

and:

g^én-nó- "begotten" >

g^én-nó-
g^en-nó-
g^ennó-
g^enó-
g^nó-

> In "long-diphthong" roots (however one analyses
> them, i.e.
> *//peih3-// or *//peh3j-//) it's the glide, not the
> laryngeal, that
> disappears first.

Yes, but I'm saying that in forms where i>0 there is
no e>0 because of order (approximately):

tone > 0 before suffix with tone
low-low > mid-low
e-tone > 0 before i/u/R
eih > eh in syllable
only first tone remains
p > b (various)

pìpèi-h3-mi pìpèi-h3-mès
pìpèi-h3-mi pìpei-h3-mès
pipèi-h3-mi pìpei-h3-mès
pipèih3mi pìpeih3mès
pipèih3mi pìpih3mès
pipèh3mi pìpih3mès
pipèh3mi pìpih3mes
pibèh3mi pìbih3mes


In Sanskrit reduplicated verbs in which the first C
became different from the second (tis.t.h- pib-) could
become thematic.



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