Re: [tied] H4 - identity? Existance?

From: Exu Yangi
Message: 43650
Date: 2006-03-04

>
>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "P&G" <G&P@...> wrote:
> >
> > >Are there other possible
> > >identities for h4? Does h4 actually exist, and if not, where does
>the
> > >"h" in Albanian come from?
> >
> > I suspect the only source for h4 is the desire of linguists to
>explain why
> > some apparent h2 survive in Hittite while in other cases it
>vanishes. Is
> > there anything outside Hittite that would compel us to suggest
>h4? If we
> > could show that some Albanian initial h correspond precisely to
>cases where
> > Hittite loses h2, then you might be on to something. But I
>suspect you'll
> > only be able to find one or two instances at best.
> >
> > So my advice is to make sure we have to believe in it, before we
>try to work
> > out what it was.
> >
> > Peter
>************
>Due to the respect I have for Peter, I just like to reply to back
>him up, based in one very good study, that one could also found in
>the Internet under the title ���Albanian Tocharian B Glossary���,
>written probably from experienced scholar, but whose name is not
>mentioned and who refers too much to Adams. What I like to point out
>is exactly the fact that author gives us no more then two examples:
>
>Albanian ftoh `cool off' (<*h4eps-top-eh1-sk��e/o-) from PIE *top-
> ���firebrand���: Skt tapati ���is warm, burns���: Av tapaiti ���is
>warm���: Lat
>tepeo: ���am warm���: Hittite tapassa ���fever, heat���. I will add here
>also Sl topao/topla/toplo ���warm���, toplina ���warmth���, istopiti ���to
>melt��� etc.
>
>H4org���hiyeha:> Alb <herdhe> ���testicle���. It is to be noticed that
>*g���h yields /d/, that preceded by /r/ ends in /dh/: MIr
>uirgge ���id.��� < *H4org���hiyeha:.Av &r&zi ���id.���.
>

There certainly was *something* that, in identical contexts, gave two
different results in Hittitle. There are many cases where we expet to find a
laryngeal, and it just isn't there, and others where we eon't expect to find
one, and it is there. H4, if it exsted at all, was probably one of the early
casualties in the loss of laryngeals.

And you are absolutely right -- if you ignore that, then here is no proof
since it probably happenned in pre-anatolian PIE.