Re: [tied] re Integrating linguistics, archaeology, genetics and pa

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- Gordon Selway <gordonselway@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > At 10:16 last night Jens Elmegård Rasmussen wrote:
> > >--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "John"
> > <jdcroft@...> wrote:
> > > >Certainly M17 appears to be the Indo-European
> > >marker, whilst M343 R1b appears to be the
> > >marker >of the pre-Indo-European substrate in
> > >Western Europe.
> > >
> > >This seems to be incompatible with the
> > >widespread view that the IE languages did not
> > >spread by massive migrations, but merely by the
> > >take-over of a new elite that imposed its
> > >language on the local population.
>
> ****GK: I don't believe such a categorical either/or
> solution is either plausible or helpful. The best
> working hypothesis seems to me to be much more
> flexible. In other words "it depends", and one
> situation of IE spread and change may vary from
> another. Sometimes it might indeed have merely been
> the activity of a relatively narrow if powerful and
> influential elite (and there are various scenarios of
> this, including a "mimetic" one, which involves a
> prior elite adopting IE from its allies,

Growing up in India which is today classified as a thrid world country
I never for even a second, thought that the people from
Russian/Urkranian steppes were elite, or more populous, or powerful in
any sense of these terms. I never considered learning their language
or finding out about their religion and culture, or ever visting their
land. It is very hard to imagine why things would have been any
different 5000 years ago.

The Soviets could not even get pass a rag tag Taliban "army" in the
80's. If they ever succeeded in crossing the Hindukush they would have
met a highly trained army armed with nuclear weapons.

But seriously, the Vedic culture/civilization is the only continously
practiced tradition in the "Indo-European" world that has been
supported by a large fertile landmass, favorable climate, agriculture,
writing (the undeciphered "Indus" script), etc. etc. to have a shot
at an elite status. Wandering nomads just do not orally preserve
texts for thousands and thousands of years as if they were tape
recorded yesterday.


M. Kelkar


and then

> spreading it with little or no accompanying migration
> of any sort.) Sometimes that might have been
> accompanied by a minor "popular" migration. Sometimes
> this migration might have been larger. Sometimes quite
> large. We should look at each particular situation
> from all angles (genetic, linguistic, archaeological,
> folkloric, etc.) with no hard preconceptions.*****
>
>
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