Re: The personal pronouns of PIE (and other families) are loans

From: g
Message: 43035
Date: 2006-01-19

>> In the approx. area between Suebia and Western Pannonia
>> <bei dene Lait> [baj 'de:ne 'lajt] or farther to the East
>> of this dialectal realm [bæ: de:ne læ:t] will suffice in
>> order to express <bei jene*n* Leute*n*> (dative, plural).
>> (<denen> replacing <jenen>)
>
> Please provide an example from southern dialect of a prepositional
> phrase with mit + accusative.
>
> Torsten

I'm not sure that in my example above <bei dene> it's an accusative or
a (merely shortened) dative. All I know is that in this case <de> can
stand both for fem. acc. <die> and and fem. dat. <der>. E.g., in the
following text, nominative plural <die> is written <de> (and this is
how it's pronounced):

<So wia des hoid is, _bei de Leit_> (dropped: -n and -en => bei den
Leuten) in an Austrian (Vienna) variant of the Bavarian dialect:

http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/guerti/weanarisch/Haudi9.html

<bei dene> and <mit de Leit> north of the "white sausage equator",
namely in Hessen (i.e., in Middle German):
http://www.aeppelsche-homepage.de/hessische_gedichte.htm

<mit de Frau> in the Southern group of the Alamanian dialect (here:
Swiss German):
http://www.aldertherwil.ch/Witz.htm

<einigaungan, oda mit an Ross ghuit, owa san olle z`Fuß gaungan>
(Austrian Bavarian)
("eingegangen, oder mit dem Ross geholt, aber sind alle zu Fuß gegangen)
content.grin.com/data/7/33514.pdf
but AFAIK, usually, <an> is used as <den>, i.e., masc., accusative.

neben + an ("ein(em)"):
<Nur i wohn neben an Dokta und Du wohnst neben an Tschuschn!>
(Austrian; Tschusch is a derogatory term for Yugoslav or foreigner; in
Bavaria known only from Austrian radio-TV)
www.wer-weiss-was.de/theme204/article1522103.html

Accusative <an>:
<Wir brauchn an Dokta!" Leitstelle: "Wer seid's denn ihr?" Zivi: "An
Dokta brauch
ma." Leitstelle: "Wo stehts denn? Wer seids denn?"> (Dokta = "doctor,
physician")
www.rettungsforum.com/forums/topic1221.html

Or Bavaria's Bavarian (by the Bavarian novelist and playwright Ludwig
Thoma, circa 100 years ago):
<D'Mahm hat mi owag'schickt, und ös sollt's an Dokta hol'n lassen. Da
Loisl is
am Luchseck g'schoss'n wor'n, und ös sollt's glei an Dokta
telefaniern...>
(<d'> "die"; <owa> here "ab-"; <ös>: this weird spelling might
represent the
remnant of the old Bavarian <ets> plural "you", which is repeated in the
<'s> that's added to the verb)
www.buecherquelle.com/thoma/jagrlois/jager07.htm

Even the der- prefix is pronounced [da] or [d@], and generally
corresponds to the Hochdeutsch and er- prefix (in some cases to zer-
too):

<»Hat ma'n dawischt?> ("Hat man den/ihn erwischt?")
<in d' Latt'n eini...> ("in die Latte ein", i.e. "hinein")
<Vo dem hoaßt's do, er waar daschossen wor'n?> ("Von dem heißt es doch,
er wäre erschossen worden")
www.buecherquelle.com/thoma/jagrlois/jager07.htm

George