Re: [tied] Re: Indo-Iranian Vowel Collapse (was: IIr 2nd Palatalisa

tgpedersen wrote:

>> The delabialisation of *gW in pre-Germanic is at least half-
>> regular before *o other than the thematic vowel, so *kalb-a- is not
>> deviant. The delabialised *k was generalised,
>
>
> Generalised to other stems??

Yes, in the same way as the Gk. /d-/ of <delpHus> was generalised to
<dolpHos>. Transparently related and nearly synonymous stems may easily
influence each other.

> Will you argue that that, will all the exceptions and analogies,
> _proves_ 'calf' is inherited in Germanic?

At least it shows that the Germanic material can be cogently integrated
with the Greek and Indo-Iranian evidence.

> How about this: *gW-la-, g-la- (= 3gW-l- 'uterum gerere', s. d., +
> Laryngalerweiterung)? In den germ. Wörtern got. kilþei
> 'γαστήρ', in-kilþō 'gravida', ags.
> cild 'child', aschwed. kolder dän. kuld 'Wurf, Kinder derselben
> Ehe', kann germ. kel- (> kil-) mit dem Ablaut kul- aus idg. g-l- oder
> (mit Laryngalerweiterung) g-la- hervorgegangen sein; ebenso können
> die folgenden germ. Worte < idg. (mit Halbreduplikation) gl-g- :
> gl-k-(< voridg. G.W-l-G.- : G.W-l-g-) oder < idg. glag- : glak- (<
> idg. gW-la- + g- : k-) sein, mit idg. -g- an. klekja (< *klakjan)
> 'ausbrüten', dan. op-klække 'aufziehen, groß ziehen', Part. an.
> ny:-klakinn : mit idg. -k- got. niu-klahs 'neugeboren'. Mit idg.
> *gW-la-, *g-la- (< voridg. G.W-l- < G.W-r- + A.- oder H.-) vgl.
> semit. *k.-r- (einfach redupl. k.-r-r-, s. 3gW-l-) + A- in semit. k.-
> r-A-, arab. Perf. k.ara`at '(a she-camel, ewe, she-goat) became
> pregnant, brought forth', IV `a-k.ra`at 'she (a woman) became
> pregnant', und *k.-r- + H.- in arab. k.araH.at '(a she-camel) began
> to be in a state of pregnancy', kāriHuN '(a she-camel) becoming
> in a manifest state of pregnancy' SI. 126 f. 195. 268. gW-lbh- (<
> voridg. G.W-l-P.- < urspr. G.W-r-P.- = GW.-r- + P.-, s. 3gW-l-,
> gW-rbh-), gr. δελφύς 'uterus',
> `αδελφεός 'frater
> (couterinus)', δέλφαξ 'Schwein,
> Ferkel', ags. cilfor-lamb ahd. chilburra mhd. kιlber(e) 'agna',
> avest. gerebuš- n. 'Junges eines Tieres', got. kalbō ahd. chalba
> 'vitula', gr. δoλφός
> μήτρα [: idg. kW-lb-, s. d., und vgl.
> gW-r-bh- ], = semit. k.-l-b- (b < ursemit. P.) in arab. k.albuN 'cor,
> medium, medulla (palmae), media acies (exercitus), the best part of
> anything'; sonst mit r semit. k.-r-b-, hebr. k.`œræβ
> 'Mutterleib, Mitte' etc., s. gW-r-bh-. SI. 127 f.
>
> from Møller: Vergleichendes indogermanisch-semitisches Wörterbuch

What kind of opinion can I have of a long list of miscellaneous
lookalikes, some of which certainly form cognate sets while others
probably don't? Show me a detailed analysis of one of these proposed
relationships and I will tell you what I think of it. Note, by the way,
that the connections proposed Møller are at a pre-PIE level, which means
that he also regarded the word as inherited in Germanic.

> and, on the semantics of the last Semitic root, cf from Falk and
> Torp, under 'kalv':
>
> "Af betydningen "foster" forklares det, at 'kalv' i nord. og t.
> dialekter saa ofte anvendes om ting som befinder sig inde i andre,
> således i nt. om træstykker anvendt til udfodring, i dansk sjøsprog
> om en smækker line der lægges inden i et svært taug som en kjerne."
>
> "From the meaning "embryo" it is explained that 'kalv' in Nordic and
> German dialects so often is used of things that are inside other
> things, thus in Northern German of pieces of wood used for blocking
> (?), in Danish maritime language of a thin string placed inside a
> heavy rope as core."

This certainly makes sense, but what does it prove about the status of
the "calf" word?

Piotr