[tied] Re: Proto Vedic Continuity Theory of Bharatiya (Indian) Lang

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- mkelkar2003 <smykelkar@...> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > archaeological,
> > >
> > > GK:The migration scenario does not conflict
> > with
> > > archaeology. There are a few "soft spots", but
> > they
> > > are not in the same class as your odd theory.
> > >
> >
> > The "Indo-Aryan" migration scenerio conflicts
> > completely with the
> > archaeological data in the Indian subcontinent.
> > Please see section 9.3
> > p. 49 of proto vedic continuity theory.doc in the
> > files section of
> > Cybalist. The Bryant/Patton volume contains papers
> > by Lal, Schaffer,
> > Lichenstein leading experts in South Asian
> > archaeology.
>
> ****GK: Your section 9.3 is insufficient to back up
> your claim. The Indo-Aryans could well have been true
> nomads, and such populations are exceedingly hard to
> track down (before and after settlement). The case of
> the Pechenegs in Ukraine is a perfect example (though
> the Huns woulod fit the bill almost as easily). We
> know that the Pecheneg Confederacy was dominant on the
> steppes of southern Ukraine for a century and a half
> [ca. 890's- 1030's] (Constantine Porphyrogenitus has
> much to say about it in his De administrando imperio).
> But they remain archaeologically elusive. We know that
> most of those who stayed on the steppes after their
> big defeat of 1036 were eventually invited by Prince
> Vasyl'ko Rostyslavych to settle in Galicia. Upon
> settlement, they adopted the local culture so quickly
> and extensively that one cannot differentiate them
> from the rest of the population in terms of
> archaeological remains. All that we have are some
> place names ("Pechenihy" "Pechenizhyn")and possibly
> some family names ending in -yuk. And in their case we
> have to deal with a fairly large population. So your
> conclusion as to the archaeological argument is
> disputable at best. The Indo-Aryans may well have been
> integrated on the Pecheneg model, with one admittedly
> major difference, viz., their language became dominant
> over that of the locals amongst which they
> settled.****
> > >
> > > textual,
> > >
> > > *****GK: Such as?****
> >
> >
> > The internal chronology and geogrpahy of the Rig
> > Veda do not provide
> > evidence of "Indo-Aryan" migrations. Rig Veda and
> > the Avesta taken
> > together show know evidence of any contact between
> > these people
> > outside of the Indian Subcontinent.
>
> *****GK: I'm afraid this also is insufficient.

It seems irrational to impose of our theories on people who lived
thousands of years ago without regards what those people have to say
about themselves.

The

> Scythian Foundation Legend in Herodotus likewise
> presents the Scythians as autochtons (some 200 years
> only after their arrival!), but we know this is not
> true.*****
>
> > > All I can say is
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > genetic evidence
> > > > > > > > points to a flow of humans from the
> > Indian
> > > > > > > > subcontinent to the north
> > > > > > > > not the other way round.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > GK: So "genetic evidence" as you
> > understand
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > contradicts the verifiable "flow of
> > humans"
> > > > from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > north into the Indian subcontinent in
> > > > historical
> > > > > > > times?...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That it DEFINITELY does.
>
> ****GK: Since you claim that there is no genetic
> evidence of the Saka, Kushan, and Turco-Mongol
> invasions et sim., all of which clearly occurred, you
> cannot argue that the lack of genetic evidence for an
> Indo-Aryan invasion "proves" that such an invasion did
> not occur. This is elementary logic.*****

I missed the last part of your sentence "historical times." You
were trying to trick me it seems. I am not aware of any studies that
have tried to track down genetic evidence of these because THERE IS
SIMPLY NO NEED FOR IT. But here is the point. IEL migrations are
only acceptable if corroborated by other outside evdience.

M. Kelkar

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