Re: [tied] Re: Sanskrit Rta... and related terms

Dear Aydan:

Please bear in mind that what I am about to write will be the extreme
minority view, shared on this list, perhaps only by me with myself.

I believe the earliest formulation of this word is *?ar(o), and its meaning,
far from the high ethical abstraction of which we might hope to learn, is
simply 'the order in which mundane objects are arranged, vertically, or
horizontally, by size, shape, volume, etc.'.

It has a PIE derivation, *ar-i-o-, 'commander', which simply means the 'man
who keeps things orderly (*ar-i-).

It can also be seen in Egyptian jry, 'keeper (of order)'.

Since you are looking at this word in a religious/ethical context, I thought
this might be of some small interest.

Patrick

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----- Original Message -----
From: "A." <xthanex@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 9:49 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Sanskrit Rta... and related terms


> First of all I just want to say thank you to everyone who is chipping
> in. The matter of Rta has been a topic of interest on a number of IE
> religion lists I am on. It is my hope that with all of your
> assistance, the role of Rta and possible correlates may be clarified
> somewhat.
>
> Secondly I would like to apologize for my use of simple layman's
> terminology; as I have often remarked, I have no background in
> linguistics and am struggling to keep my head above water.
>
> I understand that *ar- is also designated *H2er- but I find myself
> tripping over my own thoughts if I try to use the proper laryngeal
> script, hence opting to follow the AHDIER and just say *ar-.
> Hopefully my use of the remedial terminology won't make this too much
> more difficult.
>
> As I understand it, David Watson suggests that Rta, Arta, and Asha
> all develop from a zero grade form which is the Proto-Indo-Iranian
> *rta-.
> I had *assumed* that as the leading "A" is preserved in both Asha and
> Arta, the root from which the various terms developed would have been
> some sort of suffixed version of the full grade form (such as *ar-ti-
> or *ar-tu, etc) so as to explain the preservation of the leading "A".
> I had thought only the Sanskrit form had dropped the initial "A" and
> thus revealed it had undergone further change after the suffixed
> form. My theory is most likely incorrect as I really am out of my
> league here and if forced to choose between a theory based on my own
> poor comprehension and that of Mr. Watson... I'm going to listen to
> my betters.
>
> Having stated that, I would love to understand more of how the
> various terms developed such as: *ar- > *??? > Proto-Indo-Iranian
> *rta- > Sanskrit Rta > ??asha???
>
> Mr. Watson also pointed out:
> "Some Scythian and Sarmatian names contain the element 'ard-', which
> is thought to be cognate, and which is also found in Ossetic with
> special religious or mystical connotations besides its mundane
> meaning of "oath"."
> I am again *assuming* that these Scythian and Sarmatian terms are
> later developments and that 'ard-' developed out of the earlier
> terms 'arta' or 'asha'???
> (I'd also like to thank David for the educational link to the pages
> on Asha)
>
>
> Piotr Gasiorowski stated:
> Seemed to suggest that the development began as *ar- which then
> developed into the suffixed forms *ar-to- and *ar-tu- which then
> became the zero grade forms *h2r.-to- and *h2r.-tu-
> (did I get that right or did the zero grade predate the suffixed
> form??)
>
> Piotr further clarifies the development of the Iranian terms:
> "Avestan <s^.> is a development of *rt following an accent, so both
> <ar&ta-> and <as^.a-> (the latter used as the name of a divinity)
> correspond to Skt. r.ta-"
>
>
> Sean Whalen added some information about the development of the
> Avestan terms which I have yet to fully digest LOL
>
>
> I hope I did not mess things up too badly and that you will be able
> to point out where I am in error.
> As always, I am truly indebted to you all!
>
> Sincerely,
> Aydan
>
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