From: Joao S. Lopes
Message: 41067
Date: 2005-10-05
----- Original Message -----
From: "glen gordon" <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Names of a few Celtic Deities
<snip>
>
> > Glen thinks that he can irritate me by
incorrigibly
> > calling my reconstructed language Proto-World
> > [...] instead of _Proto-Language_, [...]
>
> The difference being?
***
Patrick:
Greenberg and Ruhlen favored the mass comparison
approach, in which
phonologically similar words with rough semantic
connections were presented
as a reason for further comparative research. Used as
they both intended it,
it is perfectly legitimate. It does not pretend to
prove anything but merely
to suggest interesting avenues to pursue.
I attempt to make valid comparisons among the
reconstructed syllables and
*CVCV roots of the Proto-Language with words in other
recognized
proto-languages like PIE or PAA or PU or PA, etc.
I also attempt to explain any discrepancies that are
found but lean heavily
towards accepting only regular correspondences.
Whether I succeed or not is another question.
***
>
>
> > Firstly, in the earliest culture for which we have
> > written records, Utu, the sun-god, is firmly in
> > charge of justice.
>
> It would appear so. There could be a relationship
> between the sun and rulership going back to the
> neolithic, yes.
>
>
> > I am not aware of sufficient information to enable
> > us to make even an educated guess at what Tin's
> > function may have been.
>
> Phrases like "tinas cliniiaras" = "sons of Tin"
> are related to the Dioscouri... the sons of
> Zeus/Jupiter. The variant of his name, Tinia,
without
> doubt means "days" regardless of whether we think
> that /tin/ fundamentally means "sun" or "sky"
> because -ia is another collective suffix like -cHva.
> This implies that he is in some ways "Father Time".
> The more I think about it, the more Tin starts
> sounding like Ra.
***
Patrick:
Nothing I write is without doubt but I am just a poor
mortal.
Many celestial gods have been associated with time
(moon, Venus, sun,
Jupiter, Saturn). What appears to be a
Father-Time-like figure only achieved
real importance in one culture of which I am aware;
and it was not Egypt,
Greece, or among the Etruscans.
"Days" would be an absolutely unprecedented manner of
nomenclature for a
divinity! One might venture to say: next to
impossible.
If you are referring to the Egyptian god Ra', there is
no _recorded_ trace
of a connection of this divinity with 'time' of which
I am aware.
Glen states confidently that "tinas cliniiaras" =
"sons of Tin" "are related
to the Dioscouri". I would be curious to learn how
certain this equation
is - with data not just declaration.
I will say, it is a bit difficult to connect the
Dióskouroi, who were the
tutelary deities of _sailors_, with 'time', 'sky', or
'sun', for the Greeks,
among whom they originate.
However, a slight connection with the 'sun' might be
through their
association with horses, which are frequently
associated with the Sun - but
also with Mars; and they were, primarily warriors.
***
>
> = gLeN
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