Re: [tied] Re: Names of a few Celtic Deities

----- Original Message -----
From: "glen gordon" <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Names of a few Celtic Deities


<snip>

>
> > Glen thinks that he can irritate me by incorrigibly
> > calling my reconstructed language Proto-World
> > [...] instead of _Proto-Language_, [...]
>
> The difference being?

***
Patrick:

Greenberg and Ruhlen favored the mass comparison approach, in which
phonologically similar words with rough semantic connections were presented
as a reason for further comparative research. Used as they both intended it,
it is perfectly legitimate. It does not pretend to prove anything but merely
to suggest interesting avenues to pursue.

I attempt to make valid comparisons among the reconstructed syllables and
*CVCV roots of the Proto-Language with words in other recognized
proto-languages like PIE or PAA or PU or PA, etc.

I also attempt to explain any discrepancies that are found but lean heavily
towards accepting only regular correspondences.

Whether I succeed or not is another question.

***


>
>
> > Firstly, in the earliest culture for which we have
> > written records, Utu, the sun-god, is firmly in
> > charge of justice.
>
> It would appear so. There could be a relationship
> between the sun and rulership going back to the
> neolithic, yes.
>
>
> > I am not aware of sufficient information to enable
> > us to make even an educated guess at what Tin's
> > function may have been.
>
> Phrases like "tinas cliniiaras" = "sons of Tin"
> are related to the Dioscouri... the sons of
> Zeus/Jupiter. The variant of his name, Tinia, without
> doubt means "days" regardless of whether we think
> that /tin/ fundamentally means "sun" or "sky"
> because -ia is another collective suffix like -cHva.
> This implies that he is in some ways "Father Time".
> The more I think about it, the more Tin starts
> sounding like Ra.

***
Patrick:

Nothing I write is without doubt but I am just a poor mortal.

Many celestial gods have been associated with time (moon, Venus, sun,
Jupiter, Saturn). What appears to be a Father-Time-like figure only achieved
real importance in one culture of which I am aware; and it was not Egypt,
Greece, or among the Etruscans.

"Days" would be an absolutely unprecedented manner of nomenclature for a
divinity! One might venture to say: next to impossible.

If you are referring to the Egyptian god Ra', there is no _recorded_ trace
of a connection of this divinity with 'time' of which I am aware.

Glen states confidently that "tinas cliniiaras" = "sons of Tin" "are related
to the Dioscouri". I would be curious to learn how certain this equation
is - with data not just declaration.

I will say, it is a bit difficult to connect the Dióskouroi, who were the
tutelary deities of _sailors_, with 'time', 'sky', or 'sun', for the Greeks,
among whom they originate.

However, a slight connection with the 'sun' might be through their
association with horses, which are frequently associated with the Sun - but
also with Mars; and they were, primarily warriors.

***

>
> = gLeN