Fw: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels


>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Brophey" <TBrophey@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:16 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels
>
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Ryan" <proto-language@...>
> > wrote:
> > > Here, I can furnish the examples.
> > >
> > > It is probably easiest to see with PIE initial *a-.
> > >
> > > Earliest PIE had a morpheme *ha (from Nostratic /Ha/
> > not /ha/), 'water',
> > > that had combined with other morphemes to form roots in PIE.
> >
> > OK, if I understand correctly, your examples generalize as:
> > After an (initial?) *H, *a is not lenthened, but neither is it
> > converted to *A; it just remains *Ha.
> >
> > Is *H2awi, 'bird' also a water word? (I hope you don't say it was in
> > your list, and I missed it.)
> >
> > And how does *H2owis, 'sheep' arise?
>
> ***
> Patrick:
>
> In the case of initial /*ha/ and /*?a/ (as in *a(:)m(m)a, *a(:)p(p)a,
> *a(:)t(t)a), since one seems never to see *A, I presume it was lengthened
> subsequent to the breakaway of Hittite.
>
> Neither of these are 'coloring', since initial *?e, e.g., in *?e(:)d-,
> 'eat', behaves exactly the same; similarly *?o in *o(:)us-, 'mouth'.
>
> As for *H2ewi-, here we start with *?a, (plant-)top, + *wa, 'set',
> producing *?á(:)w-, 'tops (of plants/trees), + *ye-, '-like; *á(:)wi-,
> 'what is associated with tree-tops'; this can probably be found in
> Egyptian also but the argument would be too involved; in Sumerian, it is
> u-11, a reading of a sign that pictures a bird. Although u-11 is not
> recorded as reading 'bird', u-3(-e-4), u-5, and u-8(-e-4) are. Even the
> final element (-*ye) can be seen in combinations like u-8-e-4, 'bird'.
> Therefore, I reject any connection with *o:u-, 'egg'. So, the
> reconstruction would be *?a(:)wi-. Normally, the initial vowel wouldnot be
> lost but for reasons known only to themselves, the Old Indians eliminated
> the initial element but had the good graces to lengthen the vowel by way
> of compensation: ví-H, 'bird'.
>
> With *H2owi-s, I do not think it should be reconstructed with a
> 'laryngeal'. I believe it is best analyzed as a reduplicated *wo, 'curl':
> *wówo- becomes *wéu-, 'all curls' + "*ye-, '-like' = *wowéi-, 'all curly';
> at this point, the avoidance of the same phone in subsequent syllables
> rule came into effect, and the the initial *w as metathesized: *ówwi-
> became *ówi- (*ma:-ma: becomes *á:mma:).

***
Patrick:

I hope no one will mind too much if I repost this.

I inadvertently left out the Sumerian cognates of *ó(:)wi-, which are: u-8
and u-10, 'ewe'.

Those who are aghast at my proposals will, I hope, at least find these
'coincidences' amusing.

***