Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

----- Original Message -----

From: Miguel Carrasquer

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:49 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Short and long vowels

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 05:58:13 -0500, Patrick Ryan
<proto-language@...> wrote:

>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Miguel Carrasquer<mailto:mcv@...>
>
>  On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 05:37:03 -0500, Patrick Ryan
>  <proto-language@...<mailto:proto-language@...>> wrote:
>
>  >  Well, let's try.
>  >
>  >  for *dhe:-, the Vedic participle is dhitá
>  >
>  >  for *sta:-, the Vedic participle is sthitá
>  >
>  >  for *do:-,  the Vedic participle is da:tá but Epic di-tá
>  >
>  >  I am not sure I see the problem.
>
>  The problem is that your ?*dhe-tó-, ?*sta-tó- and ?*do-tó-
>  would have given Vedic *dhatá-, *statá- and da:tá-, so the
>  former cannot be the PIE forms.
>
>  The proper reconstructions are *dh&1-tó-, *st(h)&2-tó- and
>  *d&3-tó-.
>
>  ***
>  Patrick:
>
>  First off, according to Whitney, da:tá is attested. Do you dispute this?

If I were, I would have used an asterisk.

>  We both know that PIE *o had a peculiar response in Old Indian: namely, > a:.

Only in open syllables.

 

***

Patrick:

 

Well, if we start with da:- for 'give', and add -tá, we get da:tá as in the Rig Veda. Does that not mean that the syllable was open?

 

If it were *daH-, the syllable would have been closed.

 

***

>  Now you seem to be saying that *&1, *&2, and *&3 before the stress-accent, all give Old Indian -i-;

Before, after and under.

***

Patrick:

 

Why did you delete my question without addressing it? Because you cannot answer it?

 

I will try again:

 

What is the difference between what you have written above and:

 

All *& before the stress-accent give Old Indian -i-.

 

***

 

>in other words, the peculiar treatment of *o ceased to be operational.

In other words, since neither *a, nor *e, nor *o give Vedic
/i/, "put", "stood" and "given" did not contain PIE *a, *e
or *o.

***

Patrick:

 

How the laryngealists love circles!

 

What leads you to believe that the zero-grade of PIE *e:, *a:, and *o: in Old Indian is *e, *a, and *o? 

 

 

***