Re: [tied] The recent terror attacks; TREMBLE

From: Patrick Ryan
Message: 39210
Date: 2005-07-13

Torsten,
 
For whatever it may be worth, I believe the correct form of this root in PIE is:
 
Pokorny's 3. (*der-), 'tremble'; Pokorny's 1. *ter- is not a separate root, nor a "Wechselform" (there is no such thing, in my opinion), but merely an s-mobile form where the form _with_ *s- has not been preserved.
 
This is supported, in my opinion, by Egyptian d3 (/taR/), 'shake, tremble'.
 
The Nostratic form I reconstruct is *dare:.
 
Since Nostratic *d becomes Arabic t, (tar)tara is the expected response.
 
 
Patrick
----- Original Message -----
From: tgpedersen
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] The recent terror attacks prompting a question

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@......> wrote:
> tgpedersen wrote:
> > Falk & Torp
> > "
> > 'dirre' in recent ablaut to Sw. 'darra' ODa. 'darre'. Next to it
are
> > forms with -dr- for -rr-: Nw. dial. 'didra' and 'dadra',
> > Eng. 'didder' (and 'dodder'), G.
> > dial. 'tattern', 'dattern' "tremble" [TP: cf G. 'zittern' id.].
> > These side forms seem to represent different types of
reduplication,
> > a complete ('darra' from *dar-dr-ôn) and an incomplete ('dadra'
from
> > *da-dr-ôn); cf. Gr. 'toithorúzein' "tremble" from IE root
> > *dher "jump" (Gr. thórnusthai), to which also
> > Lit. 'drebù' "trembles" and Arm. 'dordoj^el' "tremble"
> > "
>
>
> See too Rom. "dârdâi" ( < *dardari or *dr.dr.-) and Alb. "dridhur"
with
> the same meaning of "tremble".
> I guess here we have two distinct root, *ter- and *dar-
>

Bomhard: Indo-European and the Nostratic Hypothesis

Proto-Nostratic  *t[h]ir-/*t[h]er- "to tremble, to shake" > PIE *t[h]
er-s-, *t[h]r-es- "to tremble, to shake", *t[h]r-em- "to tremble, to
shake"; Proto-Kartvelian *t[h]r.t[h]- "to tremble"; Proto-
AfroAsiatic *t[h]ar-/*t[h]&#601;r- "to tremble, to shake"; Proto-
Dravidian *tir- "to tremble".


Møller: Vergleichendes indogermanisch-semitisches Wörterbuch

4*dh-r- 'zittern' (< voridg. T.-r- [Wechselform von t-r- 'zittern',
s. 1t-r-]), redupl. dh-dhr- in norw. dial. dadra nhd.
tattern 'zittern', nhd. tatterig 'zitternd', tatterich 'Zittern (in
den Händen)' und norw. dial. didra ne. didder 'vor Kälte zittern'; +
Larynga&#322; mit urspr. suffixalem m- * d-r&#259;m-, reduz. dr.:m- in serb.
d`ìmati 'schütteln', d``rmnnuti 'erschüttern, erbeben lassen' (s.
Berneker 255); + g- (: k-, < voridg. G.- : g-) idg. dh-rg- in mhd.
turc 'Taumel', nhd. torkeln 'taumeln', mit n-Infix slav. dr&#281;g- >
russ. drjagát&#301; 'zappeln, zucken', serb. drézdati 'zittern' (vgl.
Berneker 222), mit w-Infix (vgl. P. Persson Wzlerw. 223) idg. dh-rug-
 : dhr-&#365;g- (urspr. kollektiver Bedeutung, s. die Noten zu 6p-l-
 'pulex') gr. redupl. &#964;oi&#952;&#959;&#961;&#973;&#954;&#964;&#961;ia &#729; &#942; &#964;o&#965;&#962; &#963;&#949;&#953;&#963;&#956;o&#965;&#962; &#960;&#959;i&#959;&#944;&#963;a
(Hesych), &#964;o&#953;&#952;o&#961;&#973;&#950;&#949;&#953;v (? < dh-rug- (: &#964;o&#953;&#952;o&#961;&#973;&#963;&#963;&#949;&#953;v (< dh-ruk-)
&#729;&#963;&#949;&#943;&#949;&#953;v)) : lit. drug&#375;s 'Fieber', russ. droz&#301; 'Zittern,
Fieberschauer', drozát&#301;, drognut&#301; 'zittern, beben' (s. Berneker 231)
=  semit. *t.-r- [ *t-r-], s. 1t-r-, tr-m-, t-r-s-.


1t-r- 'tremere, zittern' (< voridg. t-r-), sanskr. taralá-
 'zitternd, zuckend, unstä&#357;; voll redupl. t-rt-r- (s. d.), gr.
&#964;a&#961;&#964;a&#961;í&#950;&#969; 'zittre vor Kalte'; + m- idg. tr-m- (s. d.), gr. &#964;&#961;&#941;&#956;&#969;
lat. tremo; + s- idg. 2t-rs-, tr-s-(s. d.), gr. &#964;&#961;&#941;&#969; sanskr.
trásati 'zittert'; + p- idg. tr-p-, abulg. trepet&#365; 'tremor',
trep&#257;t&#299; 'palpare', lat. trepidus 'zitternd' (urspr. verschieden von
trepidus 'trippelnd' von 8t-r-);
[: idg. dh-r- (< voridg. T.-r-), s. 4dh-r- S. 58] = semit. *t-r-,
voll redupl. in arab. tartara trans. 'shook violently'; einfach
redupl. t-r-r-, assyr. Prät. i-trur 'zittern, beben'; mit n-
Präformativ n-t-r-, hebr. Impf. yittar 'aufspringen vor Angst',
Pi. 'hüpfen' (von der Heuschrecke), Hiph. 'aufbeben machen'.
Delitzsch 45. 54. SI. 3 f. 47 f.
[: semit. *t.-r- (= idg. dh-r-), s. idg. tr-m-, 2t-r-s-.]


tr-m- 'tremere' (== 1t-r- + m-), gr. &#964;&#961;&#941;&#956;&#969; lat. tremo,
: semit. *t.-r-m- (= * t.-r- [: *t-r-, s. 1t-r-] + m-), + s- arab.
t.ar-masa 'fugit (ab aliqua re)'.


2t-rs-, tr-s- (Erweiterung von 1.2t-r-, voridg. táras- : tarás-),
sanskr. trásatì 'zittert, bebt', gr. &#964;&#961;&#941;&#969; 'zittre, fliehe', avest.
þrah- 'Furcht haben' (Bartholomae Wb. 802f.), Part. tarsta-, sanskr.
trastá- 'zitternd', gr. &#940;-&#964;&#961;&#949;&#963;&#964;o&#962; 'unerschrocken', `&#941;&#964;&#949;&#961;&#963;&#949;v&#729;
&#949;&#966;&#972;ß&#951;&#963;&#949;v, lat. terreo 'schrecke', : semit. *t.-r-s- (= *t.-r- [: *t-
r-, s. 1t-r-] + s-), + Y.- arab. t.arsaY.a 'vehementer cucurrit prae
terrore'.


t-rt-r-, Reduplikation von 1t-r- 'tremere', gr. &#964;a&#961;&#964;a&#961;í&#950;&#969; 'zittre
vor Kälte', = semit. t-rt-r-,   arab. trans. tartara   'movit,  huc
illuc  concussit, he shook (-hu him or it), shook (him) vehemently',
s. 1t-r-.


Torsten





 
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