Re: [tied] Early PAlb Depalatisations of k', g' > k, g

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:12:48 +0000, alexandru_mg3
<alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:41:02 +0000, alexandru_mg3
>> <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
>>
>> >So we have:
>> >
>> >a) Lith: s^love: 'honour' < Balto-Slavic *clo:u- < PIE *k'le:u-
>> >
>> >but
>> >
>> >b) Lith: klausyti 'to listen' < Balto-Slavic *klau- < PIE *k'lou-
>>
>>
>> */e:/ doesn't give */o:/ in Balto-Slavic, and Balto-Slavic
>> */o:/ doesn't give /o/ in Lithuanian.
>>
>> s^love: < *s^la:vija:, like Slavic slava (*s^la:va:), from
>> Balto-Slavic lengthened *s^laaw- <= *s^law- < PIE *k^low-.
>>
>
>Please see Derksen:
>
>url: http://www.indo-european.nl/cgi-bin/response.cgi?
>root=leiden&morpho=0&basename=\data\ie\slav&first=1351
>
>
>see Derksen:
>"
>Proto-Slavic form: slava
>
>[...]
>
>Old Church Slavic: slava `fame'
>
>[...]
>
>Proto-Balto-Slavic reconstruction: s'lo:u()

*s'lo:- would have given Lith. *s^luo-. It must be /a:/.

>Lithuanian: šlove `honour, fame' šlove 'honour, fame'
>
>Latvian: slava `rumour, reputation, fame' ; slave `rumour,
>reputation, fame'
>
>Indo-European reconstruction: k^le:uH-

Derksen doesn't mean that *k^le:uH- would have given
*s'lo:u(?)-, which is impossible. He means that the PIE
_root_ can be reconstructed as *k^le:uH- (which is
doubtful). BS *s'lo:u(?)- would then be o-grade.

>Certainty: +
>
>Page in Pokorny: 605
>
>Other cognates: Skt. sravas- `fame, honour' [n]; Gk. kleos `fame'
>[n]; OIr. clu `fame' [??]
>"
>
>A PIE *k^low- will give in Lithuanian *klau- (see klausyti) not šlove
>due to the depalatisation rule (see Kortlandt's Rule regarding
>depalatisation)

That rule is surely wrong (see Derksen: kleg-/klek-,
kleNc^ati, kleNtI, klik-, kljuc^I, and I stopped checking
there).

>So for sure the PIE was k^le:uH-. and not *k^low-

Slava and s^love: are certainly not from *k^le:uH-.

They are innner-Balto-Slavic lengthened grade from *s^law- >
*s^la:w-. *s^law- itself can come from *k^low-, or as
Sergejus rightly remarked, from *k^lew-. It depends on
whether the lengthening from a to a: took place before or
after the development ew > aw (and eu > jau).

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...