Re: [tied] Early PAlb Depalatisations of k', g' > k, g

alexandru_mg3 wrote:

> In addition, grurë is obviously related to *g'r.h2no- the
> semantism fit 100%.

"Related to" doesn't mean "descended from". In fact, <grurë> is most
likely a Latin loan (<-- <gra:nu->). The reflexes of etymological nasal
vowels vary considerably in Albanian dialects.

> Also we talked here, about a 'sonorant context' so a 'large
> context'
> In addition the sonorants don't appear in all cases 'immediately
> after' g^/k^ so I don't see why this effect was influenced different
> by the "syllabic sonorants"?

Because a syllabic liquid or nasal functions like a vowel, i.e. it
occupies the nuclear position in a syllable. The blocking of
satemisation took place in complex syllable onsets, i.e. if the CR-
cluster was followed by a vowel. The difference is similar to that
between, say, /tw, tj/ versus /tu, ti/ and is important for many
phonetic processes, also in living languages.

> As result, I doubt that a 'syllabic sonorant context' has had a
> different effect.

Have you ever studied phonetics? If you had, you'd have no such doubts,
since you would be familiar with many similar examples.

> In this conditions my question is :
>
> Do you know a second example than the 'well known' *g^Hr.zdo-
> 'cereal, barley' > <drithë>?

It _is_ rather well known, so why the ironic inverted commas?

> Because if this is the single example that we have here...

There must be more of them; I'll think of some.

> 1. Sorry but I didn't understand what is 'special' regarding:
> *gWr.- > g(w)urë (for me is a good example for r. > ur)
> similar with wl.k- > *(w)ulk-

The position or *r. after the loss of the laryngeal. Syllabic consonants
do not normally occur before a vowel, so the phonological structure of
the word was repaired by "resolving" *r. into a vowel+rhotic sequence.
The same thing is visible in Sanskrit: *gWr.Hi- > *gr.i- > giri
(preserving the number of syllables).

> 2. There wasn't r.: l.: in PIE (it's true also that some scholars
> have proposed them)

Yes, before the advent of the laryngeal theory. They no longer do.

> but it was a lenghtening effect at least in Early
> PAlb when we have had r.<H> l.<H> contexts before to have any other
> outputs of r. l.

It's a mere stipulation, falsified by the comparative evidence. Compare
the Greek outcome of *n. > /a/ versus *nh2 > /na:/ (Attic /ne:/, when
unstressed) or /ana/ (when stressed). The latter reflexes can't have
resulted from the mere lengthening of *n. or any of oits outcomes. The
development of syllabic liquids and nasals before laryngeals was
independent from the very beginning. Even *iH and *uH didn't develop
into long vowels everywhere.

Piotr