Re: [tied] Re: *m for 1st & *t for 2nd person in PIE and Proto-Ural

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:21:53 +0000, elmeras2000
<jer@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
>> Finno-Ugric 1st and 2nd person suffixes seem to match. In the 3rd
>> person IE uses -t, -nt, suspected by some to be identical the
>> participle suffixes -t-, -nt-, whereas Finnish uses what was once a
>> participle in -p-. Tocharian A has 3rd person -m, perhaps from the
>> same suffix? There are supposedly loans from Tocharian in Finno-
>> Ugric.
>
>Do you mean Tochaian B -m. (anusva:ra)? That is always from *-n-,
>never *-m-. The IE background is rather securely *nu 'now'.

This is confirmed by the fact that there is no -m. in the
Toch. B. third person imperfect.

>The corresponding A form ends in -s. , explained by Jasanoff as the direct
>reflex of IE *-ti.

Interesting. That would confirm my suspicion that the Toch.
A. endings reflect the PIE primary endings, while Toch. B.
has retained the secondary endings (except in the 1sg.):

Toch. A.
1 -m < *-mi
2 -t
3 -s. < *-ti
1 -mäs < *-mesi
2 -c < *-te
3 -(V)ñc < *-(e/o)nti

Toch. B.
1. -m, -eu < primary *-mi, them. *-o:u
2. -t
3. -0, -m. < *-t (+ *nu in present)
1. -m(o) < *-me(n/s)
2. -cer < *-te:r
3. -m. < *-(V)nt

2pl. -cer in my opinion is the regular reflex of expected
secondary *-ten > *-ter (in the series: 1pl. *-m-én, 2pl.
*-t-én > *-tér, 3pl. *-0-én > *-ér + s > *-é:r), with *-tér
reshaped to *-té:r under the influence of the 3pl. (itself
replaced by *-ént in Tocharian).

The 2sg. -t (agglutinated *tu > *-t(w)ä ?) is a peculiarity
of Tocharian.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...