Re: German vocalism

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> Brian M. Scott wrote:
> > At 1:22:41 PM on Wednesday, May 18, 2005, alex wrote:
> >
> >> 1) is the German "au" from anything else as an older "u"?
> >> (latin murus > mauer, durare > dauer, IE *suru >sauer, etc)
> >
> > I believe that it can arise from Gmc. *au: <glauben>, Gothic
> > <galáubjan>; Laub < *laubaz.
>
> so, there are two posiblities: from "au" and "u".
>
>
> >
> >> 1) any idea when the "u" > "au" in German stoped as phenomenon?
> >
> > The diphthongization of MHG /i: u:/ to NHG /aI aU/ began in
> > Austria in the 12th century and spread north and west
> > through much of Upper and Middle German.
>
> [...]
> > Brian
>
>
> First of all, thank you Brian. Now, the period of "begining" was 12
> Century in Noricum. The change of "c^" of foreign words in "s"

happened

> too around the same period of time (I guess). My question here was
> arrised by the name of the city Klausburg which in my opinion is of
> Slavic origin and was enterinng the language of the Germans in
> Transilvania where it was added the tipical German "burg". I suspect

the

> word which was there in Slavic was simply "key" , aka "cluc^" which
> should give a regular Germanic "Klaus". Because of the "s" there,
> Hungarian got the name of the city direct from Germans, not from

Slavs.

> The Hungarian "Kolozs" appears to be a directly loan from German bu

tI

> am not very sure if from "Klus" or from an already "Klaus". The

rest of

> the word ( the name of the city is Kolozsvar) appears to be a

calques

> after german since var= burg, thus Kluas+burg= Kolos+var
>
> Thank you for your inormation.
>
> Alex

**********
11th Britannica:
"Colonized by the Saxons in 1178, it then received its German name
of Klausenburg, from the old word Klause, signifying a "mountain
pass"."
Dan