Re: [tied] Re: Unusual Phonolgy

I guess I was conceiving of ¿ as an epiglottal though I mischaracterized it as a pharyngeal.

And as a stop rather than approximant.

My apologies to the list for disseminating inaccurate information.

As for your example, Caucasian example, does it by any chance mean '5'?

Also, if the pre-form was a pharyngeal, could that be fronted to a (post)alveolar affricate?

So that Abaza retains the earlier form (¿) while Dargva has fronted to (c.)?

Any idea what conditions might motivate such fronting?

Patrick

----- Original Message -----

From: Miguel Carrasquer

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:48 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Unusual Phonolgy

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:49:57 -0500, Patrick Ryan
<proto-language@...> wrote:

>What I am representing as /¿/ is Arabic ¿ayin. I perceive it as a voiced
>pharyngeal stop similar to /?/, the glottal (laryngeal) stop. The raspy
>release sounds a bit like a fricative.

Arabic ¿ayin is usually a voiced pharyngeal or epiglottal
approximant (i.e. a fricative without friction)

>Palatalization of this sound would defeat even an Arab's best efforts, I
>think, since it is not made with the tongue at all.

That's true for the epiglottal variant. The pharyngeal
variant involves the root of the tongue (against the
pharynx).

As to the possibility of a correspondence ¿ <=> c, it's not
impossible. I was looking at North Caucasian numerals, and
we may have one case there (actually /¿/ ~ /c./). If we
assume that the NW and NE Caucasian numerals are related
(which I think most of them are, even if that doesn't
necessarily mean that NW and NE Caucasian are related in
general), then we have for instance Dargva (dial.) c.Wa vs.
Abaza ¿W& (from something like *t.q.ui). In general,
uvulars have the potential to back to pharyngeals, or to
palatalize to lateral or central (post-)alveolar fricatives.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...

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