Re: [tied] Walachians are placed far North the Danube in Nestor (10

From: george knysh
Message: 35609
Date: 2004-12-23

Marius,
You seem to be using a defective "on-line" edition of
the Kyivan (or Suzdalian) Chronicle. And you keep
citing these erroneous readings as a mantra. I suggest
you switch to the Shakhmatov edition or some other
reputable version. See below for the corrected texts.

--- alexandru_mg3 <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:

> "In 6406 (898) Magyars,

[ who fought against Slavs and
> Walachians,]

****GK: There is no "who fought against Slavs and
Walachians" in the Chronicle's text HERE. It reads
simply
>"Ugrians
> marched past Kyiv on the hill, which nowadays is
> called the Ugrian Hill." Then the text goes on:

"and coming to the Dnipro, they settled there in
their tents, for they were nomads like the
Polovtsians. And having come from the east, they
swarmed across the great mountains, which became known
as the Ugrian mountains."

Then you have different texts depending on the
versions. The Kyivan Chronicle reads:

"And they began to make war against the inhabitants."

The Suzdalian version of the late 12th c. reads:

"And they began to make war against the inhabitants,
Slavs and Wallachians."

The Nestor text (composed between 1091 and 1115) of
the Kyivan Chronicle concluded thus:

"And they began to make war against the inhabitants.
And they sat there with the Slavs, having subjected
these. And from that moment the land became known as
the Ugrian land."

The Sylvester gloss (composed in 1116) repeated in the
margin of "inhabitants" the information it had given
earlier, in the undated portion of the Tale, about the
role of "Ugrians" in terminating the rule of
"Wallachians" in "Danubia". This actually referred to
the role of the Onogurs in assisting their Bulgar
allies in the conquest of the "Bulgarian Land"
(particularly the territory of contemporary Moldavia)
in the 7th c.). Sylvester wished to emphasize that
these Onogurs (or "White" Ugrians as he called them)
joined together with the "Black" Ugrians (Magyars
proper) in the invasion of Pannonia and Transylvania,
a "Slav Land" and remind the readers of the Onogurs
earlier role. Sylvester's s.a. 898 gloss read as
follows:

"For Slavs sat here earlier, and the Wallachians had
taken the Slavic Land. And then the Ugrians chased out
the Wallachians and took control of the Land."

When the gloss was drawn into Nestor's earlier text it
seemed to imply that it was the invading Ugrians of
898 who "chased out the Wallachians". That is how the
Suzdalian editor understood it, and so he added "Slavs
and Wallachians" as above. (There are many more
examples of Suzdalian garblings of Kyivan texts,
subsequently imitated by Novgorodian
Chroniclers).*****
>
> "Thus Japhet's domain included also Northmen,
> Anglo-Saxons,
> Galicians, Walachians AND (so please read again,
> here is written :
> AND) Romans."

*****GK: There is no "AND" in the text. It only exists
in your defective on line version.*****




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