Re: [tied] Re: Albanian origins and much more

g wrote:

>
> Weren't Dorians' initial places in areas inhabited by Macedonians and
> later on by Albanians? Ancient Macedonians' idiom was a Doric dialect
> (wasn't it?).

it wasnt. At least the Greek did not understood Macedonian so far we are
informed from the time of Alexander the Great.

>
>> *****GK: Also, would not the Bessi be considered
>> Thracian rather than Dacian?*****
>
> But how about this statement? (-:
> Albanians call themselves
> _shqip_, from Greek _skyth�s_ (plural: _skythai_). In Latin:
> _scythes/scytha_. _Shqip_ (Albanian) - if traced from _Scupi, Skopje,
> Shkup - contradicts all phonetic laws

and coincidentaly , that make a sense in Alb. where the word means "eagle".
The word for "eagle" in substrate layer from Romanian is "hultan" and one
see easy this is the same word as Latin "vulturus";the alternance "h" versus
"v" is known in Rom. thus beside the loan "vultur" from Latin, there is
still the "hultan" (=vultan). The word is far away from Alb. "shkipe"
(eagle).

> (but this is how P. Skok saw
> it.) Balkan-Latin pronounces -_f_- instead of Greek [...], this we
> see on an inscription in Salona, where the Greek _Athenod�ros_ was
> written as _Afenodorus (CIL III. 9178). In certain cases, the
> Rumanian equivalent of Alb. "th" (...) is also "f" and the same is
> the case with Arumun [ie, Aromanian], which has fallen under strong
> Greek influence.

the "th"= "f" is there where initialy was an "f" and nothing else.

> In Balkan Latin (which - in view of Salona -
> includes Dalmatian Latin) Greek _skyth�s_ must have been (gens)
> _scifa_. In this word, the _f > p_ change can be explained both in
> Albanian and Balkan Latin (Dr. _lupt�_, Alb. _luft�_, Greek -
> although not significant - _Astivos_, Lat. *Astifus, Alb. Shtip).>>

nope. There is an "p" in "shqipe" and this "p" is not to justify with any
Greek-Latin abracadabra. The Abl. "ft" is from an "ct" but it is reflex ( ct

> ft) _older_ as Latin "ct" since the Latin "ct" is reflected as "jt" (

directus > drejt)

>
> <<In other words: the name by which contemporary Albanians call
> themselves can be traced to the designation _Skytha_; this was the
> name of a people living on the Northern shores of the Black Sea and
> the lower Danube; [...] this was also the name of Karps who migrated
> from Scythia (and probably of others as well).

This was also the name of the Carps? This is a suggestion , not a prooven
fact.

> The Karps adopted this
> name in coure of their cohabitation with Latin speakers and, as time
> went on, they took it as their own, as present day Albanians.>>

Again, a suggestion, one ought to say.

> As for G. Schramms Bessi-theory, cf. again this review by Ludwig
> Steindorff, published in Monumenta Germaniae Historica:
> http://www.mgh.de/da/rezensionen/band51.1/0166.html
>
>
> Sch.s Anliegen ist nun zu zeigen, da� die Bessen die
> Vorfahren der Albaner waren: Sie wurden, wie bezeugt
> ist, im 4. Jh. christianisiert und erhielten, wie Sch.
> annimmt, analog zu den Goten Ulfilas eine eigene
> Kirchensprache und Schrift. Erst unter dem Druck der
> Bulgaren wurde der eine Teil der Bessen assimiliert,
> _____der andere zog nach Westen auf byzantinisches
> Territorium in das Gebiet von Arbanon._____
> An die Stelle des alten Ethnonyms trat der vom
> Horonym abgeleitete neue Name.

That is important here. Are there any testimony about Bessi moving in the
region of Arbanon or is just a postulate of Scharmm`?

> George

Alex