Hello,
I could buy Tache Papahagi's "Dictionarul Dialectului Arom^an"
(Dictionnaire AROUMAIN (MACEDO-ROUMAIN)" (a reference book regarding
the Aromanian Dialect)
Unfortunately I found to buy only vol. II (starting from L).
The surprize was that together with the main form (sg.) 'vatrã'
there is also indicated a variant of it (sg.) "veatrã" especially in
the Nothern Part of the Dialect.
Below, I try to reproduce these fragments from Papahagi's
dictionary:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
VATRã, s.f. pl. vã't,rî - [rom.] vatrã, <<foyer, maison>>, Dal,
217; Nic, 114; CEL, 88 ( <srb. vatra); tu vátra a ta s,' c^inus,ea
árde ([rom.] in vatra ta s,i cenus,a arde, încãlzes,te = în casã
strãinã nici focul nu te încãlzes,te) PLit,656; u-aflã' vátra arát,e
([rom.] vatra a gãsit-o rece, nu a gãsit pe nimeni acasã), PB,272;
árde vátra-a noástrã ([rom.] arde cãminul nostru), PAnt, 287; BNA, I,
30. V. veatrã s,i cacavatrã - cf. s,i alb. vatrë "focolare; cammino".
[...]
VEATRã (nord), s.f. Mih, 533 - v. vatrã.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
(where t, -> ts
s, -> sh
the marker [rom.] - is my insertion in Papahagi's text to
indicate when the romanian explanation start"
Adding to the aromanian sg. variant 'veatrã', the Romanian plural
form: 'vetre', I think that we have enough elements to can assert
that:
we have traces that indicates the presence of an older 'e' (/'ea')
in Common Romanian word for 'vatrã'.
Some Conclusions from here :
1. 'vatrã' wasn't borrowed in Romanian from Albanian, when the
Albanian forms was already 'vatrë/votrë', so it has all chances to
arrive in Romanian from PAlb(Dacian?) Substratum.
2. the existance of an 'e' in the Old-Romanian form sustains my
proposed etymology : PAlb (Dacian?) *wai-a:tra (> *weatra > Rom.
vatra,pl.vetre <-> Ar. vatrã (var. veatrã),pl. vatri/vãtsrî <-> Alb
Tosk vatër - Gheg votër) (meaning: 'his own fire').
Only the Best,
Marius
--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" <alexandru_mg3@...>
wrote:
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I have to tell you that there is no trace of 'e' in Aromanian
> plural forms for 'vatra' 'hearth;fire place'.
>
> So more probable Romanian plural form 'vetre' is a newer form
> derived from an older one 'vatre'.
>
> Unfortunately I don't have Papahagi's Aromanian dictionary to
check
> this form directly there but I received the following e-mail from
an
> Aromanian person that seems credible in my opinion.
> So see below the Aromanians forms:
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Nu shtiu cai eshtâ shi iu vrei sâ eshi.
> Tu frâshâroteshti âlji dzitsem "dauâ vatri". Dit la
> Machedonji (armânj) am avdzat shi "dauâ vatre".
> Genitivlu "a vatriljei" icâ (sau) "ali vatri"
> N-am tsi s-vâ dzâcu altâ.
> Cu tinjii
> Jani Gusho
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Buna ziua,
>
> Sunt din Romania.
> Va rog mult spunetsi-mi care eashte pluralu la cuvantlu 'vatra'?
> ( "El în vatra-lji pãrinteascã" ) -> (1) unã vatrã - (2) dauã ???
>
> Multumesc mult,
> marius
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Nu shtiu câtse nj-ai pitircut asitâ mesaj. Mini nu
> shtiu limba inglezâ shi ashi nu duchii tsiva.
> Sânâtati
> Jani Gusho
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Hello,
>
> My name is Marius Alexandru, I'm Romanian.
>
> Could you help me and tell me what is the
> plural of the Aromanian word `vatra' .
>
> I found the singular form in Belimace poem but I
> need to know also the plural form.
>
> (Dimândarea pãrinteascã - Belimace)
> "El în vatra-lji pãrinteascã
> Fumealjia s'nu-shi hãriseascã;
> Di fumelji curunji s'nu bashe,
> Nat în leagãn shi nu nfashe!"
>
> Based on it I will try to identify the Common Romanian form.
>
> Thanks a lot and Best Regards,
>
> Marius Alexandru