Re: [tied] Rom. tsarca - Lit. s^árka

----------------------------------------------------------------
5. karacsony < Rom. 'Craciun' 'Christmas'
This would be interesting if we had any confidence in the origin of
this word. Last year's discusssion of it did not come to any
confident conclusion.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Doesn't matter here the origin of "Crãciun" "Christmas", the
epenthetic vowel in Hungarian word is obvious.



--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
<richard.wordingham@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3"
> <alexandru_mg3@...> wrote:
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

-

> -
> > Marius A: Not true either. Hungarian Slavic words reflecting CVrC
> > derived in fact from Hungarian older form CVrVC (where the first

V

> is
> > the epenthetic vowel and the rest of the cluster reflecting the
> Slavic
> > Methathetic form *CrVC ...like in 'szerda' < 'szereda' that

clearly

> > exemplifies my Rule above ... because Methatetic Slavic form was
> > *sreda. (and not only Slavic clusters CrVC but Any CrVC cluster
> was
> > treated similar in old Hungarian)
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

-

> -
> >
> > In order to sustain my rule above (and until Piotr will post

his

> > examples 'with no epenthetic vowel' as 'normal rule') I post

below

> my
> > examples that clearly shows this epenthetic vowel in today
> Hungarian
> > Slavic Loans and not only there:
> >
> >
> > 1. Hun. 'szerda' 'Wed.' < Hun. reg. 'szereda' < Sl. *sreda 'id.'
> > (see also Hun. town name : 'Csikszereda' <-> Romanian 'Miercurea
> > Ciuc')
> >
> > 2. Hun. 'szer-encse' 'luck' <-> Serb.-Cr. 'srec'a' 'happiness;
> > luck'
>
> Reduction to CVrC is clearly blocked by the /n/.
>
> > 3. Hun 'fogát csikorgatja' 'to gnash one's teeth ' <->
> > Serb.-Cr. 'škrgutati' 'id.,'
>
> Inconclusive without further explanation. It's not immediately
> obvious to a non-Slavicist that there should ever have been a VrV

in

> the Hungarian.
>
> > and of course also the others ones that I already posted :
> >
> > 4. kereszteny < Christianus
>
> Reduction to CVrC is blocked by the /t/.
>
> > 5. karacsony < Rom. 'Craciun' 'Christmas'
>
> This would be interesting if we had any confidence in the origin of
> this word. Last year's discusssion of it did not come to any
> confident conclusion.
>
> So 'Hungarian Slavic words reflecting CVrC derived in fact from
> Hungarian older form CVrVC (where the first V is the epenthetic
> vowel and the rest of the cluster reflecting the Slavic Methathetic
> form *CrVC' needs to be refined to something like 'Hungarian Slavic
> words reflecting CVrCX derived in fact from Hungarian older form
> CVrVCX (where the first V is the epenthetic vowel and the rest of
> the cluster reflecting the Slavic Methathetic form *CrVCX (V a non-
> nasal vowel)' where X includes V. Examples of this rule have
> already been given. The qualified rule is still relevant.
>
> Richard.