Re: The role of analogy, alliteration and sandhi in counting

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

> Richard Wordingham wrote:

> >> Greek : tetra - kW > kp >k > t
> > What's your evidence for an intermediate step /k/ in Greek?

Greek

> > does not have a merger of /k/ and /t/.

> I know about a change of ke > kind of "t" (in Albanian), so this

change is

> possible. Any evidence of "p" > "t"?

There was a Czech dialect with p^>t^ - I recall it being called
somethinlg like the 'tetaci' dialect. The arguments against kW > k

> t in Greek also apply to kW > p > t. The change seems to have

been kW > t directly. Remember that Greek had a letter, koppa, for
the reflex of *kW.

>
> > What do you mean by /kp/? I don't see any need for there to have
> > been a true labiovelar stop, if that is what you mean.
>
> I mean the kluster which resulted from "kW" due consonification

of "W". This

> cluster get simplified to "p" or "k".

The cluster you get is [kw]. I don't know of any examples of that
becoming [kp].

> > None of your examples above relate to kW > w ! As an example of

an

> > intermediate step, we have PIE *kWod > Germanic *xWat > OE

_hwat_ >

> > Early Modern English /hwat/ > /hwOt/ > /wOt/ 'what'.
> >
> > Richard.
>
>
> because there is no "kW " > "w" !!! . Once "W" get consonificated

to v,b,p,f

> how would you expect to have again "w"?
> Your example of Germanic is not properly here since apparently all

languages

> presents some trouble regarding the interogative pronoun and the

labiovelar

> question? Any better example?

PIE *kWekWlos > OE _hweowol_, _hweogol_, _hwe:ol_ > English _wheel_.

Richard.