Re: [tied] PIE **fr- (was: Reasons)

--- Richard Wordingham
<richard.wordingham@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Sean Whalen
> <stlatos@...> wrote:
>
> > Many languages lack sr- or str-.

> Since for
> other
> > reasons I added f, there's no reason not to think
> that
> > fr- existed.
>
> It wouldn't be a peculiar gap if it didn't exist,
> especially if the
> origin of **f should lead it to have a limited
> distribution.

Oh, I agree. However, I don't think there is a
gap. Mainly based on words like *sri:g- "cold" that if
from **friXg- would be analyzable as onomatopoeia and
possible links to words in Proto-Uralic and
Proto-Semitic for which I'm working out regular sound
shifts.

> Siamese doesn't have initial fl- or fr-, though it
> has p(h)l-, p(h)r-
> , thr- and k(h)r-. (I am also inclined to believe
> the thr- given by
> dictionaries for English loans.) It was very
> interesting to see
> that the name for Macdonalds' ice cream,
> 'MacFlurry', transliterates
> back from Siamese as 'MacFurry' (the vowel used in
> Siamese is
> conventionally approximated by the vowel of English
> 'furry', not
> that of 'hurry'). This suggests that English loans
> (such as 'flat',
> which is used in the name of at least one apartment
> block) are not
> even having a marginal impact on this aspect of Thai
> phonology. (By
> contrast, final /s/ has been established from
> English, and final /f/
> has at least a marginal presence.)

So, no sr- or any other cluster with a fricative?

> Weera Ostapirat's research on the Kra dialects
> suggests that one
> origin of Proto-Tai *f- is Proto-Kra-Tai
> (=Proto-Tai-Kadai = Proto-
> Daic) is *l(&)p-, in which case one would not expect
> to see *fr- or
> *fl-.

Well, that would be pretty interesting. Are there
any compound words that might have formed fL- but were
prevented?





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