Re: [tied] Re: Ogam/Ogme, etymology

I think it's very hard to deny the similarity between Ogme and Ogmios. It's too much coincidence. But since phonetic equations dont relate the two, it's plausible the hypothesis of loan from one Celtic language to another. Or Ogmios could be a dialectal form of a expected Gaulish Ogambios?

And about ogham? Any alternative etymology? Could be Ogme and ogam not related?

----- Original Message -----

From: CG

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 12:52 AM

Subject: [tied] Re: Ogam/Ogme, etymology

> What did you say about this Ogam's etymology in http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/mb28.html ? > > > ++oghum > the "Ogam" writing, so Irish, Early Irish ogum, Ogma ma > Elathan (son of knowledge), the Hercules of the Gaelic > gods, Gaulish Ogmios, the Gaulish Hercules and god of > eloquence: *Ogambio-s. Cf. Greek @Go@'/gmos ( @G*g-mos?), > a furrow, line, Sanskrit ájmas, course, run, root ag: > the comparison is very doubtful. There are some problems here. First off, Gaulish Ogmios is not likely to come from an earlier *Ogambios because Proto-Celtic -mb- is retained as such in Gaulish, and we would also need to propose that the internal -a- was lost due to syncope, a rare phenomenon in Gaulish (though not completely unknown). Secondly, Proto-Irish *Ogmios should produce something like *Omae (with lenited -m-) in Old Irish since -g- should disappear in the cluster -gm-. There are more than a few Celticists these days that do not believe there is any connection between Gaulish Ogmios and Irish Ogma - but rather that it is purely coincidental that the two names look similar. Personally, I still prefer for there to be some connection, but the mechanics involved in the equation are very problematic. Perhaps the name was borrowed from British or Gaulish settlers in Ireland rather late in the game - who knows? - Chris Gwinn