From: petusek
Message: 34516
Date: 2004-10-07
----- Original Message ----- From: "alex" <alxmoeller@...> To:
<cybalist@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 8:51 PM
Subject: [tied] work
>
> is the Slavic "trEba" a loan from Romance or from Germanic?
> I think at Romance : trabajo, trabaho, travail, treabă
> or at Germanic : treiben, drive
> any relationship between Romance and Germanic , any common root regarding
> these words?
> My dictionary does not say anything about any cognates of Germ. "treiben"
> beside the Germanic languages.
>
> Alex
Folks! As far ar I know, Cz tr^eba, Polish trzeba, S/Cr trëba, OCS tre^be^
(byti) = "to be necessary"! OCS tre^bovati "must, have a necessity,
sacrifice" (compared to G (be)-dürfen, Lat o-portet by Holub & Lyer)
PS *terba "a need, a necessity" has two possible explanations:
1. if is linked to Rus tréba, OCS tre^ba "a sacrifice, offering" < *terbiti
"to refine" (compare Polish trzebic' "to clear, fight, clean", Rus. terebít'
"rub; pick (flax)", tereb "clearance, cutting, felling area", Cr. trijébiti
"to clean", Srb. trébiti id. CzSl "to clear, also to clear forests
forsettling"; these might be compared to OIr. trebaid "he ploughs, settles";
another form of the root might be IE *treib-, which is in Gr. trí:bo: "I
rub, grind, harry", tríbos "a pathway", which seem to have derived from IE
*ter- "to rub, grind, etc." ), this assumes a rather problematic semantic
shift of "clearing, cleaning, refining" > "sacrifice" > "a need" (Cz
potr^eba "need, necessity")
2. another one deals with unattested IE *terb(h)-, being a variant of *terp-
> OPrus enterpo "he needs", Goth. Taúrban "to need", G dürfen "may, be
allowed to", Gr. térpo: "I feed" (saturate?), Sans. tarpati "he feeds"
"po"-derivatives of tr^eba are quite common in Czech. Here are some of them,
as well as their English meanings:
potr^ebny: "necessary, needful, needy, required,wanting,requisite"
potr^ebovat "to need, want, require, desiderate"
opotr^ebovat "hackney, wear (away/out)"
spotr^ebovat "consume,expend,finish off,use (up), eat, run down"
spotr^ebitel "consumer, customer, user"
upotr^ebit "employ, use, utilize, make use of"
upotr^ebitelny: "available, usable"
upotr^ebitelnost "applicability, usability"
To sum it up, it has been (by various authors) derived from these roots:
a. IE *terb-, IE *treib- (claimed that) < *ter-
b. IE *terb(h)- as a dif. form of IE *terp-
Does anybody have better ideas? Other possible cognatesin other languages?
Petusek