Re: Nature, virtus etc. (was: Why borrow 'seven'?)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "loreto bagio" <bagoven20@...>
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
> <richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "loreto bagio" <bagoven20@...>
> > wrote:
> > > Going back to Tabi-Y-at, I was wondering if it was related to
> the
> > > other T-(M)-b- forms of many languages which has the glosses

of

> > > tomb, temple, mound, time, egg, all, static, nature, natural,
> > > native. Perhaps also related to (X)-t-r/b. Where X is anything.
> > >
> > > E.g. for the glosses natural, (nature, native)
> > > Latin "naturalis", "nativus",
> >
> > The Latin words the sense 'born with' - PIE root *genh1 (Pokorny
> root
> > 566) 'bear'.
>
> Well those are the scholarly sources and probably more

respectable.

> But do you mean *genh1>>naturalis?? Makes sense. Of course I think
> you dont mean that.

Whoops! You're right, I meant *g^enh1 :)

But Latin _na:tu:ra:lis_ and _na:ti:vus_ are readily analysed, even
when Anglicised, as na:t(o)-u:r(a:)-a:li-s and na:t-i:vu-s. The
suffixes -u:ra (> English -ure) and -i:vus (> English -ive) are very
common additions to the past participle (or should I say supine?).
_na:tus_ 'born' is the past participle of _na:scor_ 'be born'.

_na:tus_ has Latin compounds _cogna:tus_ 'relation' and
_agna:tus_ 'relation' - in these we see the initial *g^. A few
other zero grade forms come to mind in Latin, such as the
reduplicated _gigno:_ 'beget' (past participle _genitus_).

> > > Thai "Tam Tham!-Ma"
> >
> > The exclamation mark in the Thai word is just one dictionary's

way

> of
> > marking short vowels. The Thai word <dhrrm> /tham 33/,
> > underlyingly /tham 33 ma? 55/ as the first element of a word,
> comes
> > from Sanskrit _dharma_, Pali _dhamma_ 'natural law', from PIE

Root

> > *dHer 'support, hold' (Pokorny 399). I mentioned this earlier

in

> the
> > thread.
>
> And then of course that is the usually 'argued' conservative flow.
> Sanskrit>>Thai. Fashionable indeed.

As 'dharma' is such an important concept in Buddhism, I would have
said inescapable. Unless you can come up with some pretty good
evidence for other ideas, the only possibly debatable thing about
this word is where the use of double -rr- in such words comes from.

>
>
> > > Vietnamese "Tu-nhien", "that"
> >
> > A little preliminary work with a dictionary would not have been
> amiss.
> >
>
> Well you mean there should be (a) more correct form. What is it?

I was referring to _dharma_ and _nature_.

Richard.