Re: Bow and arrow

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "andrew_and_inge" <100761.200@...>
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> wrote:
>
> > > I also think that it is silly to think that the "Anglo-Saxons"
> (the modern ones) are the result of only 2 or 3 well defined groups
> of people.
>
> > I totally condemn the unscientific pseudo-scientist who said that.
>
> If you are saying that you agree with me then perhaps we are

wasting

> time. This was my main point.
>
> [snip]
>
> > >That's no a "moral
> > > imperative". That's an imperative of reason.
> > >
> > Erh, what? My brain is too small to follow your line of reasoning.
>
> It is "against reason" to "draw more conclusions than the evidence
> allows", and more than just "a professional hazard". Your

imperative

> to draw conclusions which are not justified is not just taking a
> risk, but aiming to fail.

My "imperative to draw conclusions which are not justified"? Are you
trying to insult me?

>
>
> > > In any case, the Belgae lived in the right time and the right
> > place
> > > to have been the successors of the Nordwestblok speakers. Which
> > > other tribal groups can we say that about?
> > >
> >
> > No they didn't. They lived to the south of them, and at the same
> > time. Kuhn thinks they were a group that was temporarily
> successful,
> > and had conquered the land down to the Seine just prior to
> Caesar's
> > arrival. The name of the Parisi (of Lutetia Parisium) would be an
> > example, since it's from *par-isi- "on the Oise", the confluence
> of
> > the Seine and Oise being a few tens of km's upstream from Paris.
> > Note the Un-Celtic preserved p- (cf. the proper Celtic tribal

name

> > Are-morica "on the sea"). Another example is the name of the

Seine

> <
> > Sequana, with preserved -kW- although Gaulish is p-Celtic.
> > And another thing, Kuhn distinguishes between pre-IE

Nordwestblock

> > (also called the ar-/ur- language) and IE Nordwestblock; two
> > obviously very different languages spoken in sequence in the
> > Nordwestblock area.
>
> I understand that this is just one view of the period.

Yes it is my view of the period.

>For example q
> Celtic and p Celtic are now thought to be terms more appropriate to
> later languages - indeed the terms mainly distinguish Irish and the
> British languages, which I understand are these days grouped
> together in distinction to continental Celtic as "insular Celtic".

> It is reasonably clear that both p and q pronunciations also

existed

> on the continent.

Are you saying that Gaulish was not p-Celtic? Anyone else have a view
of this?

>And even in insular Celtic, there seems to have
> been a level of mutual understanding, for example Patrick sometimes
> being called Cadraig.

And 'pwmp' sometimes being called 'coic'?

>Consider the first ch in name of the
> Luxemburgish town of Echternach. It seems to have be recorded as a

p

> by classical writers?

German 'Luft', Dutch 'lucht' "air". Would you like to use this as
evidence too?

>
>
> > > > >But by
> > > > > Caesar's time it seems likely that the Nordwestblok
> language,
> > if
> > > > > there was one, was on the way out.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I would think
> > > > > > the most likely period for the NWBlock people to enter
> > Britain
> > > > > would
> > > > > > be after their societies were overrun and Germanicised by
> > > their
> > > > > > Eastern ex-Jastorf neighbors.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah. You mean earlier than Caesar?
> > > >
> > > > Around the time of Caesar and later. Ariovist and his army
> would
> > > have
> > > > been Germanic, but Arminius and his uprising was at least
> partly
> > > > still Nordwestblock.
> > > >
> > >
> > > How do you judge that? What is the evidence for that?
> > >
> >
> > Caesar and later Tacitus describes a situation where the tribes
> > close to the are constantly harassed by tribes from the interior
> of
> > Germania, which are described as belonging to the Suebian
> > confederaton. Archaeology shows that the Celt-like civilisation

on

> > the right bank of the Rhine (until then archaeologically
> > indistinguishable from that on the left bank) and the

civilisation

> > of western North Germany (ie. the Nordwestblock civilisation) at
> > that time is overrun by a culture to the east the upper class of
> > which is indistingushable from Poland to Thuringia.
> >
>
> Interesting speculation. But you seem to admit that you
> connect "cultures", "languages" and political groupings in a rather
> speculative way? And then you write as if your conclusions were

more

> than just speculations.
>

Why do you think sticking a label on something counts as an argument?

Torsten