Re: *Twah-

>
> >anyway, if it's a wanderword, we should assume it was something

like

> >*twah-, thus loaned into Germanic pre-Grimm. I wouldn't know of any
> >Czech loans from (Proto-?)Germanic that had *þw- > *c^w-; you would
> >know that better. A loan from pre-Germanic *tw- > *c^w- seems more
> >reasonable.
>
> The initial c^v- cluster is extremely rare in Czech - in fact, the

few words

> above are the only expressions I am aware of that have c^v- in

Czech.

> Comparison to other assumed *þw- > *c^w- loans is thus impossible :-

(. A

> loan from pre-Germanic *tw- > *c^w- seems more reasonable, indeed.

Initial

> c^- < Germanic z-/t- is quite rare, too. The only examples I know:

c^uba <

> MHG zu:pe (today Zaupe "bitch") and c^inz^e < MHG zins (< Lat

ce:nsus). c^v-

> is really weird, we have cv- in Czech < OHG/MHG/HG zw- (e.g. Zweck
> cvek),
> which is also rare in Czech. I always wondered why all the Czech

etym.

> dictionaries claimed c^vaxat, c^vaxtat and c^van^hat were were of
> onomat.origin, as they are the only words which have this strange
> consonantal cluster, and now, knowing of þwahan etc., loans seem

clear to

> me.

I just discovered South German 'zwagen'. This contrasts with
OHG 'dwahan', 'twahan'. I checked with other roots in *þw-, and it
seems to be a pattern, PGrm. *þw- > OHG dw-, German zw-, rather
unexpected. Perhaps one should look at a German connection after all?

Torsten