Re: Re[2]: [tied] Re: Etymology of "Warsaw"

> petusek wrote:
> >> Well, so I understood too from the text Brian. Why I still asked is
> >> the follow:
> >> -in Rom. "comarnic" is a little hut for shepherds thus the meaning
> >> of the city will be understood as "hut" so far there is too "the
> >> little hut" and "the big hut" ( comarnicul mic, comarnicul mare).
> >> So, apparently there is nothing about muskitos there.
> >> BTW the word "comarnic" is considered by DEX do be from Bulgarian
> >> "komarnik". Since there is no explanation for Bulgarian word, I
> >> assume this means too "shepherd's hut" but I am not sure.
> >>
> >> Alex
> >
> > I think comarnic might be linked to Lat. camara, camera or even to Gr.
> > kama'ra "chamber"
> >
> > It could either be inherited or it could be a loan. The suffix -nik
> > seems to be Slavic, which I consider legitimate as in Czech, there is
> > a "komornik", too (but it means chamberlain). What do you think?
> >
> > Petusek
>
>
> do you mean "inherited" in Bulgarian or where?

Well, the ways of loans are unpredictable and often unanalysable. I can
imagine that Gr. kama'ra came > (Lat. camara/camera > (Germ. Kamara >) Blg.
komora/komara & komorni/komarni & komornikU/kamarnikU/komarnikU (depending
on the stress? I do not know) ) > Rom. komarnik ...?

> the suffix "-nik" ist not just in Slavic , this is productive enough in
> other languages too. Let us see what kind of derivates this suffix gives

if

Yes, of course, that is possible.

> one agrees the root is *komar- and the suffix is "-nik".
> So far I know (Meillet. Et. voc. v.sl. 338; Vondrák, Vergl. Sl. Gr. I2,

613)

> the Slavic suffix "nikU" is the result of "InU"+"iko" and it makes nouns
> from adjectives which denominate persons having a quality: mo~c^enikU
> uc^enikU, bezakoninikU, etc., thus which will be the sense made up in

Slavic

> with *komar + nikU?

What about words like s^atni'k (wardrobe), botni'k (shoe box, shoe chest),
popelni'k (ashtray), rybni'k (pond), mezni'k (landmark), chlebni'k
(havesack)? Genesis of this Czech -ni'k it also makes nouns from adjectives,
perhaps, but the adjectives do not denominate persons but things, the
derivation might have been like this: sat (noun) > satni (adjective) >
satnik (noun), bota (noun) > botni (adjective) > botnik (noun), popel (noun)

> popelni (adjective) > popelnik (noun), etc. (or even directly from an

adjective - rovny (straight, direct) > rovnik (equator)...)...

> In Rom. "-nic" makes adjectivs from verbs or nouns (cucernic, datornic,
> indărătnic, cleventnic ) etc.
> To me it appears more properly to have the name of a village from a such
> adjective which means "like a xxxxx" or "full of xxx".
> So, if *komar- is the root, then the meaning of the city should be the

place

> like a hut or the place full of huts. The problem remains the root itself.
> *komar-. Is this really from an older *kamar- with the sense of "room",
> "place to be hidden" or simmillar or is there something else?

As this "-nik" means simply something that is suited for something (just
like you wrote), like something, full of something etc., komarnik could be
derived from something like komarni (an adjective; there is a similar word,
I have mentioned already, in Czech: komorni, which means chamber,
chamber-like, small, quiet, reserved, modest, limited), and, as komora,
komurka also mean "hole", "hollow" or a "cavity", komornik might mean
"hollow", "caved". Therefore, I can imagine the following possible meanings
(it is a pity that I do not know the place to check them out):

1. a place where once stood a "chamber", where once was a "cave"
2. a place that was tiny, small, discrete...
3. (as we cannot dismiss this possibility, can we?) a place full of
mosquitoes
4. a hill, a mountain (-nik is often used in names of hills and mountains,
e.g. Javornik - Javor = maple tree, hence a maple tree covered hill)

I do not know... :-) The vocalism is problematic, indeed, but it always is
in loans, isn't it? If it really is a loan, who knows...?

> Alex