Re: [tied] Old Czech hpán vs. Modern Czech pan, pán

Well, I like the second option, too. According to Vachek (in his
Etymologický slovník jazyka českého, 1979, 3rd ed.) the OCz. forms hpán (m.;
"lord, Mr."), hpaní (f.;"lady, Mrs."), hpanna (f.;"virgin, girl") were only
a matter of fashion (like in hbratr "brother" or hvozd = ozd "a forest") due
to some German influence; Lith. põnas, ponià were are Polish origin; fem.
paní, *pan-ьji (= Gr. pótnia, Sans. pátnī) < *pot-n-ijā- (nomin. -ī > two
syl. -ьji anal. after other cases); pot-n- led to pon-n- where onn regularly
gave ōn > an; then panъ must have been created after the fem. (just as
vdovec after vdova etc.). That is what Vachek claims.

According to Szemerényi, Syncope 337n, who agrees that paní << *potnī , it
was orig. *poti-n-ī

Holub & Lyer in Stručný etymologický slovník jazyka českého, Prague 1978,
2nd ed. insist on hpán < gъpan-

Younger authors (Rejzek, Český etymologický slovník, 2001) doubts as far as
Vachek's results are concerned saying "they are improbable", as forms with
prepositions speak against prothetic h- : se (h)pánem (instr.sg.), ode
(h)pána (gen.sg.) (whereas normal prepositional forms or od & s), i.e. hpán
seems to be from *gъpanъ, seen as a weakened variant of *županъ (see also
župa).

However, Vachek argues that ode hpána or se hpánem was just to make the
pronun. easier, which I can accept as complex initial consonant clusters are
often preceded by preps. ending in -e for the very same reasons.

Moreover, it is true that županъ is often thought of as being a loan from
an eastern source (see Avar zoapán, T-Tar. čupan etc.).

What to choose now? :-) It is not an easy decision, is it? If you have some
ideas, please, react in any way.

Peťus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer" <mcv@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Old Czech hpán vs. Modern Czech pan, pán


> On Mon, 31 May 2004 22:30:32 +0200, Petr Hrubiš
> <hrubisp@...> wrote:
>
> >There are two discussed etymologies of the Czech expressions for "Mr."
(pan) or "lord". (pán)
> >
> >Oldest attested form of both of them is OCz. hpán [hpa:n] which has
following possibilities to reconstruct.
> >
> >1. Cz. pan, pán < OCz. hpán < OS *gUpan- where we might see the ablaut
*gup > gUp- to *geup- (as in "z^upan")
> >
> >2. Cz. pan, pán was newly recreated after orig. femin. paní [pan^i:]
"lady", later also "Mrs." < *pot-n-ija
>
> The second option is dear to my heart because I thought of
> that years ago. However, there are big problems with a
> derivation from *potnih2: OCz. hpán is one of them, as the
> h- (< *gU-) cannot be explained from an etymon *potn-.
> Another problem is the /a/ vocalism: *potn- should have
> given Slavic *pon-. Even if the /t/ had been voiced to /d/
> before /n/ (cf. gospodI ~ *gosti-pot(n?)-), Winter's law is
> seemingly not triggered before an immediately following
> sonorant.
>
> As to the first option, I don't know if we can depart from
> an Ablaut pair *geupa:n ~ *gupa:n as if the word was
> directly inherited from PIE. My understanding is that the
> word was borrowed from Iranian, but I can't remember how the
> Iranian prototype was exactly.
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...
>
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