Time for closure (Was: Re: [tied] Re: Fibulas Almgren group VI

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> > GK: Snorri says that the Vanir are "on" the
> Don,
> > but that the Aesir are "east" of the Don. I prefer
> my
> > interpretation to yours, but it doesn't really
> matter
> > as to the key issue, which is, that as a matter of
> > fact, there were never any "Vanir" or "Aesir"
> either
> > "on" or east" of the Don. This is a fantastic 13th
> c.
> > concoction which has no basis in either
> archaeology or
> > historical documentation.
>
> (Torsten) Yes, you keep saying that.

*****GK: Only because you keep repeating your
nonsense. I think the time has come to close the
repetitions.*****

>
>
> >You have not produced a
> > single persuasive argument to back up Snorri's
> > tale.
> >
> (Torsten)I note that you are not persuaded.

*****GK: Is anyone other than yourself? I've seen no
supportive posts on this list.*****

(GK)these bog swords do not

> even
> > begin to prove is the "Odin migration" story. This
> > "big event" would have left plenty of traces, not
> just
> > a few bog swords.
> >
>
> (Torsten) Like the Huns did?

*****GK: The Huns left plenty of traces in history and
archaeology. Your "Odin people" left none for the very
simple reason that they never existed.*****

>
>
>
> > > >
> > > > >When a
> > > > > people migrates it leaves signs other than
> just
> > > > > fibulae: gravesites with specific
> inventories,
> > > > > settlements (sometimes).
> > > >
> > > > (Torsten) Mention some Hunnic settlements in
> > Europe.
> > >
> > > GK: The Huns were nomads. You didn't know
> > > this?
> > >
> > > (Torsten) Mention
> > > > traits about
> > > > Hunnic gravesite that allow us to identify
> them as
> > > > Turkic.
> > >
> > > GK: The point is that we do have many datable
> > > Hunnic gravesites, and a great deal of
> additional
> > > historical information which enables us to
> identify
> > > them as basically Turkic.
> >
> > (Torsten)Let me see if I understand you here:
> > The Huns were nomads and therefore would leave few
> > traces.
> >
> > GK: The Huns were nomads and therefore would
> not
> > have left many "settlements"
> > (Torsten) Sarmatians would have left many traces
> > because they were not nomads?
> >
> > GK: Sarmatians left no "settlements" either.
> But
> > both Huns and Sarmatians left gravesites.
> > Capish?
> >
> (GK) And the new inhumation graves in the Przeworsk
> culture that are
> associated with its suddenly becoming heterogenous,
> were "vaguely
> Sarmatian", I believe you said?

*****GK: You are hallucinating again.*****

>
> >
> > >We have no "Odin people"
> > > gravesites, and no reliable historical
> information
> > > confirming Snorri's fanciful stories about Aesir
> and
> > > Vanir.
> >
> > (Torsten)It seems 'reliable' is the operative word
> > here.
> >
> > GK: It is a good word.
> > > >
>
> And in the final analysis subjective.

*****GK: There is a difference between the
"subjectivity" of an Einstein and that of a Hoerbiger.
Your theories about the Odin people belong to the
latter category.******

> > GK: I'll make it simpler for you. The Almgren
> > fibulae cannot be used to prove that an "Odin
> people"
> > migrated from east of the Don into Central Europe,
> > because these fibulae are not ethnically specific
> > objects. They were originally manufactured in
> Olbia,
> > Panticapaeum etc.. for "the barbarian market", and
> > they found their way into many different ethnic
> > hinterlands, Sarmatian, Germanic, Thracian,
> Baltic,
> > Slavic. None of the actually existing gravesites
> where
> > these fibulae were discovered can be associated
> with a
> > group that would fit the characteristics of "the
> Odin
> > people".
>
> (Torsten) Interpretation. Since Snorri is not

reliable (which

> he isn't because
> the story he tells is not believable, which it isn't
> because Snorri
> is not reliable)

*****GK: Thanks for proving once more that your mind
is closed on the issue. Snorri is not reliable because
his story is not believable, because it has no backing
in the historical and archaeological sources
contemporary to the events he purports describing.
Evidently you can't prove the contrary and wish to
restart the whole discussion by repeating yourself for
the umpteenth time. I think it's time to end this
silliness.*****

(Torsten) there exists no historical account

> of a migration
> from the North Pontic area into Northern Europe, and
> therefore the
> dispersal of fibulas of the same type along that
> route must be
> necessity have some other cause.

*****GK: And just a brief reminder. The route Snorri
mentions is that of the "Greeks to the Varangians" of
his time, not the one you've been endlessly flogging
by a reshuffling of his statement.****





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