On Mon, 17 May 2004 23:07:30 +0000, Rob
<
magwich78@...> wrote:
>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>
>> That's what I've been saying.
>
>Ah, okay :)
>
>> The quality of the thematic vowel would have been /o/ in any
>> case, whether the *-es had been added late or early.
>
>Why is that?
Because the thematic vowel becomes /o/ before a vowel.
>> The length (due to contraction) of nom.pl. *-o::s probably
>> _is_ a sign that this ending is not very old. If the
>> pronominal marker added to the thematic vowel in the plural
>> was *es in the nominative and *ey in the oblique, and it was
>> added early, we would expect *-os(W) and *-oy.
>
>How so?
Presumably, the suffix *-ey was unstressed, and was reduced
to *-y by zero grade, but not before the *e had caused
lengthening (i.e. o-grade) of the thematic vowel.
A better example (because it involves voiced and unvoiced
sounds) is the gen.sg. *-osyo, from thematic vowel + *esyo.
the order of the rules is:
1) *-a- > *-a:- before voiced (*-a-asy- > *-a:-asy-)
2) zero grade (-a:-asy- > -a:-sy- > -osy(o)).
But the lenthening of the thematic vowel comes _after_ the
rule that deletes *i (and also after the final voicing rule,
whatever its exact formulation):
nom.sg. *-a-iz > *-a-z > *-a:-z > *-os
fem.sg. *-a-ih2 > *-a-h2 > *-eh2
>Why would *-o-es > *-o::s and not *-o:s?
For the same reason that in the dat.sg. *o-ei yields *-o::i,
and not *oi. I suspect the ins.sg. *-o-eh1 should have
yielded *-o::h1, but that merged with *-oh1 and *-o:h1.
In other words:
sg.
nom. *-á-iz > *-á-z > *-á:-z > *-os
acc. *-á-im > *-á-m > *-á:-m > *-om
n. *-á-id > *-á-d > *-á:-d > *-od
voc. *-á > *-á > *-á > *-e
gen. *-á-asya: > *-á-asya: > *-á:-&sya: > *-osyo
dat. *-a-á(i) > *-a-ái > *-a:-ái > *-oéi > *-o::i
loc. *-á-a(i) > *-á-ai > *-a:-&i > *-oi
ins. *-a-át > *-a-át > *-a:-át > *-oéh1 > *-o:h1
abl. *-á-a:t > *-á-a:t > *-á:-a:t > *-oot
pl.
nom. [*-á-asW > *-á:&sW > *-osW]
*-a-ásW > *-a:ásW > *-oes > *-o::sW
obl. *-á-aty > *-á:&y > *-oy
The other forms are based on the oblique, approximately:
acc.pl. *-á:-&y-&m-&sW > *-oyms > *-oems > *-o:ms
gen.pl. *-á:-&y-&m > *-oym > *-oem > *-o::m
dat.pl. *-a:-&y-á-:sW > *-oyósW
loc.pl. *-á:-&y-&-&sW > *-óysW + i > *-oysú
abl.pl. *-á:-&y-a:t-&sW > *-óyots > *-óyos (~ *-oybhios)
ins.pl. *-a:-&y-át-&sW > *-oyéts > *-oyís > *-o::is
>Doesn't PIE *o: remain the same in PGmc.?
Sorry: *-o:siz.
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...