Re: [tied] Re: Bader's article on *-os(y)o

On Sun, 02 May 2004 13:44:50 +0000, elmeras2000
<jer@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>> On Sat, 01 May 2004 11:52:58 +0000, elmeras2000
>> <jer@...> wrote:
>>
>> >--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...>
>wrote:
>> >> However, the ending -as in <wastulas> is simply the thematic
>> >> nominative (if it's a nominative) or the Hittite thematic
>> >> genitive (if it's a genitive). The thematic declension may
>> >> originally have conveyed something like a definite meaning,
>> >> but one cannot attribute the double function of definite
>> >> marker _and_ genitive marker to the single morpheme *-os.
>> >
>> >I cannot see the basis for calling it "thematic":
>>
>> It's the synchronic genitive ending of thematic nouns in
>> Hittite.
>>
>> >-as is the
>> >genitive ending of *all* nouns in Hittite, regardless of stem
>class.
>> >With that in mind one cannot use -as to demonstrate very much.
>>
>> As I said:
>>
>> "Leaving aside preconceptions, there is a good chance that
>> this [thematic G. -as] continues an original them.gen. ending
>> *-os, and there is an equally good chance that it represents
>> analogical spread of athematic *-os to the o-stems."
>
>Yes you did, and that makes it twisted. Wastul- is a consonant stem,
>so there is no reason to expect it to have *thematic* endings. And
>when you find it has the same genitive as all other Hittite nouns,
>it is highly biased to use that as evidence of a *thematic*
>genitive. I have no means of checking wastulas right here, but the
>parallel tayazilas 'of theft, thief' is used of the object a number
>of times in the laws, so it cannot be a nominative.

I see now. I had misunderstood Bader's description, which
sounded to me as if <wastulas> "sinner" was a thematic noun,
based on <wastul> "sin". It's in fact the genitive of C-stem
<wastul>, and has nothing to do with the thematic declension.

=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...