Re: [tied] The disappearance of *-s -- The saga continues

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:36:27 -0700 (PDT),
enlil@... wrote:

>>> In French, everything is dental, including /s/.
>>
>> No it isn't. /t/ and /d/ are dental, /s/ /z/ /l/ (and
>> formerly /r/) are alveolar.
>
>Now you've pissed me off. Ain't nobody saying nothin'
>bad about ma' French, no ma'am!
>
>Pretty funny as how I'm pronouncing [s] differently in English
>than I am in French, eh?

Irrelevant. Neither is dental.

>
>So I went on a hunt for French phonology on Google...
>
> http://qsilver.queensu.ca/french/Cours/215/chap2.html
>
>Look, Miguel, the above site which is ironically IN FRENCH,
>says clearly "Dans le cas du [s], L'APEX DE LA LANGUE (!!!)
>s'approche des DENTS (!!!) supérieures".

They say the same thing about /r/. They don't even mention
alveolars. They're wrong.

Just as wrong as at another Canadian University
(http://www.lli.ulaval.ca/labo2256/lexique/alveolaire.html),
where they claim that "Une consonne alvéolaire a les
alvéoles comme lieu d'articulation. [t], [d], [n], [s], [z]
et [l] sont des consonnes alvéolaires en français", which is
patently untrue for [t] and [d].

>The alveolar you're speaking of is the "ch" in "chose" or
>the "j" in "jambe".

Nope, that's post-alveolar.

See:
http://bbouillon.free.fr/univ/ling/Fichiers/phon/phoncons.htm
http://www2.unil.ch/ling/phon/api32.html


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...