Question regarding the evolution of Albanians ç,q

From: alexandru_mg3
Message: 31100
Date: 2004-02-15

Hello Piotr,
I wanted to start to take a look on the reflexes of Latin :
c^ "ce/ci" , g^ "ge/gi" in Romanian and Albanian but I found that
something is missing in your transformations ( I suppose that you
don't yet present this part ) or is something that I didn't
understand ...

This is related to the fact that today Albanians sounds : q, ç
(but also c, gj) have to be kept somehow from Romans times or to re-
appear at some later moments. But I couldn't find this on your axes.

Please, could you explain me this situation?

I try to indicate in the anexe below why this need is
justified.

Anexe :
=========

A. Reflexes of romanian c^ "ci" in Albanian-Romanian Common Words
-----------------------------------------------------------------

1. alb. ç,q <--> rom. c^
=======================
1.a "ç" <--> "ci"
---------------------
çok <--> cioc
çukë <--> ciuca
çufkë <--> ciuf
çupis <--> ciupi

1.b "q" <--> "ce"
---------------------
qafë <--> ceafa

this suppose that today albanian ç,q is still kept
from old times?

? -> c^ --> ? -> ç,q --- ç,q (albanian)
? -> c^ -- c^ -- c^ --- c^ (romanian)

This fact is not visible in already presented diagrams
(Albanian 1-2-3).


We need to have an Albanian Sound Axes where ç,q arrives
in our days.
These is confirmed also by some Latin Loans in Albanian :

lat. ericius - rom. arici - alb. iriq "hedgehog"
lat. caepa - rom. ceapa - alb. qepë "onion"
lat. caelum - rom. cer - alb. qiell "sky"
lat. ceresia - rom. cireaSa - alb. qershi "(sweet)
cherry"
lat. draco - rom drac - alb. dreq "evil"
lat. socium - rom. soT - alb. i shoqi "husband"
lat. vecinus - rom. vecin - alb. fqinj "neighboor"

2. alb. s "s" <--> rom. c^ "ci"
===============================
kësullë <--> caciula "kerchief"
sorrë <--> cioara "crow"

This is well indicated by Piotr : c^ -> c -> s

3. alb. s^ "sh" <--> rom. c^ "ci"
==============================
shut <--> ciut "hornless"

This can also be explained by Piotr observation that c^->c->s was
superposed with s->sh->s transformation (BUT FOR SURE NOT in 2
generations).
Please see the below diagram :

_"ciut"_"ciorë"__c^-> c__"tsut"_"tsorë"_c--"sut"--"tsorre"->s-
____"shut"__"sorrë"

_____________________________________s->sh____shut___sh>s__

NOTE : This kind of treatement of "s" ONCE kept as "s" the
SECOND time passed to "sh", clearly indicates that these
transformations need to have a significant duration in time and
that 2-3 generations (as presented on this forum) were not
sufficient.

4. alb. th "T" <--> rom. c^ "ci"
==============================
thump <--> ciump

Also an unexplained transformation that I already mention
Should be a : c^ -> c -> T (any help here, too?)




So my question is : what was the evolution of today
Albanian "ç,q" ?

Thanks again and Best Regards,
marius alexandru

P.S. : I have the same question regarding the evolution of today
Albanians "c" and "gj".