Re: Against the theory of 'Albanian Loans in Romanian'

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "m_iacomi" <m_iacomi@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alexandru_mg3" wrote:
>
> >> Your said that :
> >> 1. " Since /*s/ > /sh/ happened for sure at some historical
> >> moment in Albanian and since all Latin loanwords in Albanian
> >> exhibit this feature, the most likely assumption is of course
> >> that the change took place afterwards."
> >
> > This is only one possibility. And it isn't 'the most likely'

in

> > this situation (viewing the moment of the slavic loans).
>
> Of course it is the most likely.
>
> > The other one is that /*s/ > /sh/ was ALREADY active on all the
> > period of Latin loans, and that 'strunga','sterp','brusture'

etc...

> > are older than this moment.
>
> It depends what do you mean by "active".
> Anyway, let's denote by t1 the historical moment of the last Latin
> loanwords in Albanian and by t2 the historical moment of the first
> Slavic loanwords in Albanian. Since the feature F:= {/s/ > /sh/} is
> exhibited by all Latin words, the most likely hypothesis -- by all
> means the one which makes less assumptions -- has to be that F
> occured in (proto-)Albanian for all words concerned at some tF such
> as t1 < tF < t2, explaining thus everything. If one supposes that
> tF < t1, then at t1 Albanian had no longer the phoneme /s/, so the
> supplementary assumption that all Latin /s/ from loanwords mapped
> with perfect regularity in Albanian /sh/ (just by chance similar to
> what happened earlier at tF) has to be done. That makes two instead
> of one, plus the coincidence. It is _highly_ unlikely.
>
> Cheers,
> Marius Iacomi

And what do we learn from here? All Latin loans presents "sh" for
an "s". That will mean just as follow:
- if ProtoRomanians should have borrowed the common words from
ProtoAlbanians, then they should have had "S" instead of actualy "s".

The fact the Rom. has an "s" can means just two things:
- the words have been inherited from ProtoAlbanians by ProtoRomanians
_before_ first contact of ProtoAlbanians with Latins, thus before F
begun to work.
- the words are loans from Romanian into Albanian _after_ the F
ceased as phenomenon.

Any other posiblity?

Alex