Re: Vanir,etc.

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Moretti"
<marcomoretti69@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>

wrote:

> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Moretti"
> > <marcomoretti69@...> wrote:
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > Or it is the kingdom of Vani. That was not so difficult?
> > > > >
> > > > > If your theory were true, we should find some Kartvelian
> > > substratum
> > > > > items in Germanic. But we found nothing similar! I analyzed
> in
> > > > depth
> > > > > hundreds of bizarre non-IE Germanic roots, succeeding only
> few
> > > > times
> > > > > in getting some useful matchup with something else.
> > > >
> > > > And did you try matching with Kartvelian?
> > > > Here's one for you: Iranian V&r&Tragna > Georgian Vakhtang,
> > > Armenian
> > > > Vahagn > Odin's name Vegtam; Vangiones; <Wagnijo> in Runic
> > (weapon
> > > > find), the PN Vagn in Danish.
> > >
> > > I tried and I failed. There's nothing useful. Your matchups are
> > > inconsistent.
> >
> > And I which way, pray tell?
> >
> > >We can explain these words without Kartvelian
> > > connections.
> >
> > Yeah, like Vani.
>
>
> Iranian > Armenian /Vahagn/. But Iranian influence in Neolithic
> Europe is an anachronism.

Which is another way of saying it didn't happen. I say it did.

>The ethnonym Vangiones is of unceretain
> origin, but /Wagnijo/, /Vagn/ are derived from IE for "vehicle".

That is another proposal, not the gospel truth.

> > > > >So I dismiss any idea of connecting Vanir with something
> > > Kartvelian.
> > > >
> > > > Did you try, or is it the same story as with your dialectal
> > > Georgian
> > > > <wani> "home" that suddenly appeared out of a denial?
> > >
> > > This dialectal Georgian is quoted from Starostin.
> > >
> >
> > Why are you dodging the question?
>
> My mind is not a living encyclopedia. I need to consult works that
> are for me unaccessible from my PC in my office, from where I'm
> writing. Every suggestion needs verification, and this is very
> tiring, when I reach home I'm tired, and the only thing I can do is
> to drink. So be patient. I'll make surveys in depth in the weekend.
>

I see. So what you really meant is that you would dismiss the idea
until the weekend.

> > > > I think Herodotus mentioned some campaign in the Caucasus

where

> > > they
> > > > had to bring 100 interpreters. Ubykh recently died out. How

do

> > you
> > > > know that there are not cognates from a lost Caucasian

language

> > in
> > > > Germanic?
> > >
> > > I remember 150 interpreters. But you must know that North
> Caucasian
> > > lanugages are not related with Kartelian. Ubykh is a North West
> > > Caucasian language, similar to Georgian like Chinese is similar
> to
> > > German.
> >
> > I know. We have no guarantee that the common language of Vani was
> > Kartvelian. Heyerdahl has suggested Udi, supposedly the

descendant

> of
> > (Caucasian) Albanian.
>
> Thor Heyerdahl? The same of the Kon-Tiki?

Yes.

> If there are inscriptions or other evidence, I can accept

everything,

> e.g. that the language of Vani kingdom was Ubykh, etc...
> But this doesn't make things easier. As far I know Albanians (or
> Alanians) are an Iranian people, ancestors of the Ossetians.
>

The Caucasian Albanians are not the Alans. They were the third
Caucasian people along with Georgians and Armenians to design a
written language. Unlike them they are now Muslim.

> > >You seem to ignore this and to consider the whole Caucasus as
> > > a monolothic linguistic entity.
> >
> > Yes, that would be convenient for you if I did, oh fount of

wisdom.

> > But I don't.
>
> If you don't, you should use more attention in links. Caucasian
> languages are so convoluted and various that only comparison with
> protoforms could be somewhatreliable (and there is little

accordance

> about how reconstructing protoforms). For North Caucasian I used
> Starostin's work. Even so, it's all exceedingly difficult. Words
> phonetically similar in different Caucasian languages have often
> different meanings and are not related, while related items are

often

> completely different. Being so, some sparse assonance is not
> satisfactory.
>
> > >I try connections between pre-IE
> > > Germanic and North Caucasian, and I got some results, but the
> > whole
> > > question is complicated by absence of regular phonetic
> > > correspondences (perhaps there were different languages in the
> > > Germanic substratum).
> >
> > I just saw 'heteroglossos' used of an army by some ancient Greek
> > writer.
> >
> > So you did find some matches for the Germanic substratum in the
> > Caucasus, but still tried to take the moral high ground when I
> > claimed the same? I think I'll abstain from commenting on that
> little
> > prank.
>
> I only dismissed Kartvelian links, not North Caucasian links.
> I don't take anything moral (I'm essentially an amoral being).
>

No comment.

Torsten