Re: IE Creoles? (was: Middle English Plurals)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Wordingham"
> <richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> > wrote:
> > > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "P&G" <petegray@...> wrote:
> > > > > Tok Pisin survived. If it hadn't been for increased

literacy

> in
> > > > > English and French many more of their creoles would have
> > survived.
> > > > > Why did all the IE creoles disappear then?
> > > >
> > > > We're into speculation here, which is likely to be

unproductive

> > in
> > > the end.
> > > > But we might in passing note that modern Creoles have

survived -

>
> > > what - 200
> > > > years? You're talking 3000 or so with PIE creoles.
> >
> > Would there have been IE creoles?
>
> >Are there any Russian-based creoles?
>
> Russenorsk.
>
>
> >Are there any creoles in China?
>
> Supposedly that's where the name Pidgin came from.
> "Long time no see?" Bu shi > bovine excrement.

Surely that's a pidgin, not a creole! I was looking for examples in
Southern China, where the Chinese 'dialects' have partially replaced
many indigenous languages.

A curious difference strikes me between colonial and pre-colonial
patterns. Some rulers have captured foreign peasants to work in
their lands (Dark Age Eastern Europe, 19th Century Thailand), but I
do not recall any creoles resulting, but they seem to be commonplace
for European plantations (e.g. Hawaiian creole). Perhaps it is
because plantations didn't recruit whole villages?

Richard.