Re: Vanir,etc.

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Marco Moretti"
> <marcomoretti69@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> wrote:
> > > > > Or it is the kingdom of Vani. That was not so difficult?
> > > >
> > > > If your theory were true, we should find some Kartvelian
> > substratum
> > > > items in Germanic. But we found nothing similar! I analyzed

in

> > > depth
> > > > hundreds of bizarre non-IE Germanic roots, succeeding only

few

> > > times
> > > > in getting some useful matchup with something else.
> > >
> > > And did you try matching with Kartvelian?
> > > Here's one for you: Iranian V&r&Tragna > Georgian Vakhtang,
> > Armenian
> > > Vahagn > Odin's name Vegtam; Vangiones; <Wagnijo> in Runic
> (weapon
> > > find), the PN Vagn in Danish.
> >
> > I tried and I failed. There's nothing useful. Your matchups are
> > inconsistent.
>
> And I which way, pray tell?
>
> >We can explain these words without Kartvelian
> > connections.
>
> Yeah, like Vani.

Iranian > Armenian /Vahagn/. But Iranian influence in Neolithic
Europe is an anachronism. The ethnonym Vangiones is of unceretain
origin, but /Wagnijo/, /Vagn/ are derived from IE for "vehicle".

> > > >So I dismiss any idea of connecting Vanir with something
> > Kartvelian.
> > >
> > > Did you try, or is it the same story as with your dialectal
> > Georgian
> > > <wani> "home" that suddenly appeared out of a denial?
> >
> > This dialectal Georgian is quoted from Starostin.
> >
>
> Why are you dodging the question?

My mind is not a living encyclopedia. I need to consult works that
are for me unaccessible from my PC in my office, from where I'm
writing. Every suggestion needs verification, and this is very
tiring, when I reach home I'm tired, and the only thing I can do is
to drink. So be patient. I'll make surveys in depth in the weekend.

> > > I think Herodotus mentioned some campaign in the Caucasus where
> > they
> > > had to bring 100 interpreters. Ubykh recently died out. How do
> you
> > > know that there are not cognates from a lost Caucasian language
> in
> > > Germanic?
> >
> > I remember 150 interpreters. But you must know that North

Caucasian

> > lanugages are not related with Kartelian. Ubykh is a North West
> > Caucasian language, similar to Georgian like Chinese is similar

to

> > German.
>
> I know. We have no guarantee that the common language of Vani was
> Kartvelian. Heyerdahl has suggested Udi, supposedly the descendant

of

> (Caucasian) Albanian.

Thor Heyerdahl? The same of the Kon-Tiki?
If there are inscriptions or other evidence, I can accept everything,
e.g. that the language of Vani kingdom was Ubykh, etc...
But this doesn't make things easier. As far I know Albanians (or
Alanians) are an Iranian people, ancestors of the Ossetians.

> >You seem to ignore this and to consider the whole Caucasus as
> > a monolothic linguistic entity.
>
> Yes, that would be convenient for you if I did, oh fount of wisdom.
> But I don't.

If you don't, you should use more attention in links. Caucasian
languages are so convoluted and various that only comparison with
protoforms could be somewhatreliable (and there is little accordance
about how reconstructing protoforms). For North Caucasian I used
Starostin's work. Even so, it's all exceedingly difficult. Words
phonetically similar in different Caucasian languages have often
different meanings and are not related, while related items are often
completely different. Being so, some sparse assonance is not
satisfactory.

> >I try connections between pre-IE
> > Germanic and North Caucasian, and I got some results, but the
> whole
> > question is complicated by absence of regular phonetic
> > correspondences (perhaps there were different languages in the
> > Germanic substratum).
>
> I just saw 'heteroglossos' used of an army by some ancient Greek
> writer.
>
> So you did find some matches for the Germanic substratum in the
> Caucasus, but still tried to take the moral high ground when I
> claimed the same? I think I'll abstain from commenting on that

little

> prank.

I only dismissed Kartvelian links, not North Caucasian links.
I don't take anything moral (I'm essentially an amoral being).

Marco