On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:05:09 +0000, Marco Moretti
<
marcomoretti69@...> wrote:
>--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>> >I can only notice /zilar/ "silver", almost surely from Afro-
>Asiatic.
>>
>> But if so, -arr is not the collective suffix, but merely due to the
>fact
>> that the borrowed item ended in -arr.
>
>If we match e.g. Akkadian s.irpu(m) "silver" or Hebrew s.a:ro:ph "to
>purify metals" (with s. I transcribe the enphatic affricate), where
>is the -arr?
AFAIK, Akk. s.arpu means "purified". The word for "silver" is kaspu(m).
I don't think this word has anything to do with "zilar" or "silver".
>I can only think that when the loanword happened, a
>collective Vasconic -arr was added (leading to dissimilation of the
>first -r- in -l- or in -d-? thorny, and there are dialectal variants
>that point to *zillarr instead).
The form zilar, like all similar words bular, belar, elur etc. occurs in
several variants: zirarr, zilarr, zidarr (belarr ~ berarr ~ bedarr, etc.)
The forms with /l/ are secondary dissimilations of the forms with /r/
before final /rr/. The forms with /d/ (Bizkaian) are cases where /d/ did
not go to /r/ (as it usually does), again due to final /rr/. My
reconstruction for pre-Basque is therefore *sidar (like *bedar, *budar,
*edur etc.). The case of zilar is perhaps special in that there is one
unexpected variant <zildar>, which I cannot explain in the usual way. It's
either ancient, in which case *sildar got modified to *sidar irregularly
(giving zidar ~ zirar ~ zilar), or it's not, in which case *sildar is a
modification of original *sidar, under the influence of, say, Celtiberian
<silabar>. If *sidar is the ancient form, we can connect it with Greek
sida:ros (side:ros) "iron", of unknown etymology, perhaps (as with other
metal terms, such as molubdos and variants) Iberian.
If the Basque form was *sildar, we are perhaps dealing with a modification
somehow of the silver word (*silabar, *silubar, *sidabr-, *surebr- etc.),
which I still feel must somehow relate to Akk. parzillu, Hebr. barzel
"iron", perhaps by metathesis of the two elements bar-zilV > zilV-bar [cf.
possibly Akk. annaku "tin,lead" (< Sum. an(ak)-ku(g) "sky metal"?) and
Hittite kuwanna "copper" < ku(g) ana(k)?].
>Celtic /*itus/ derives from /*pitu-/ and developed to the Welsh word,
>I knew of it. But it central meaning seems to be "corn". An homophone
>item is found also in Welsh hydronyms, but in that case it cannot
>have the same origin.
I think it can. One of the meanings of *peit- is "fat" (cf. Llóbrega,
Vall-Llóbrega and other Catalan place names derived from lubricare,
lubricatus "fatty, slippery").
>But connections with peas are still definitely strange to me.
Peas are good food. They also go well with a collective ending like -arr.
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...