Re: [tied] Re: PIE's closest relatives

Glen, please note that the quoted comment concerning the Tartaria tablets
belongs to Alex, not to me.
I agree in this question with you.

As to the "wheel" word, the situation is not so clear.
On the one hand these were Sumerians who invented the wheel and the Sumerian
word looks well.
However the people who brought this invention to the early IE (the Yamnaya
culture people) were the tribes of the Maikop culture of North Caucasus.
They definitely were not Semitic. It is possible to trace the succession
which leads from them to the Vainakh folks, i.e. to a NEC population.

On the other hand IE *kWel- has Nostratic parallels (according to
Illich-Svitych):
A-A *q(w)l 'round, to roll';
Kartv. *kwer-/kwal- 'round';
Ural. *kol'a 'circle';
Alt. *kol'a [actually not "a" but another sign like Gr. lambda] 'to stir,
to rotate'

By the way only in IE there are meanings connected with transportation -
'wheel' and 'wagon'. But there are also variants without any association
with a wheel, for example Russian <okolitsa> 'village fence' or <okolo>
'near, around'.

Alexander

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: PIE's closest relatives


>
>
> Alexander:
> >Well, the Tartaria tablets appears to be related by some archeologists
> >with the later writting form of Sumer. And not just Tartaria, but too
> >some other things found later in Bulgaria.
>
> There is controversy with that. One might just as well say that the
> European scripts are native and that the Sumerian writing was either
> influenced by Tartaria or was a seperate development. Abstract
> patterns were common from earliest times on pottery and religious
> artifacts in Europe.
>
> Regardless of the outcome, this has no bearing on the Sumerian
> language being anywhere near the Indo-European speakers. Going
> on a quasi-writing system is hardly proof of anything. This is why I'd
> rather play it as safe as I can. If there is a connection with the two
> words, then that connection must surely be Semitic. There are few
> if any words between IE and Sumerian that one could attempt
> to connect but there is always the possibility of Semitic being the
> intermediary.
>
> I can only think of *kWekWlo- being connected with Sumerian
> /girgir/. However, even so, there is Semitic *galgal- as a potential
> go-between in such an event and IE is in fact built on native
> elements anyway (*kWel- "to roll").
>
> And I just realized. I think that should be *weru-?arDi (not my
> earlier **weri-?arDu). I switched the terminating vocalism of the
> two words. IndoEuropean compounds and Semitic genitives made
> a switch in my swiss cheese brain because *i is typically used at
> the end of the first element of a compound in IE (which turns
> out to be the regular reflex of pretonic MIE *&). Whatever.
> That still yields MIE *erАud&.
>
> Gotta stop the drinking... <:(
>
>
> = gLeN
>
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