Proper methodology (was: RE: [tied] Re: Mother of all IE languages)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:

> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:00:17 +0000, tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
> wrote:
>
> >Creoles are based on other languages, which do have pronouns. Thus
> >the the occurrence of pronouns in them in not a case of

spontaneous

> >creation based ion the hardware of our brain.
>
> Creole grammar is not based on other languages. It has been argued

that

> all creole grammars are similar, and that they represent

the "innate"

> grammar of human language ("language organ", etc.).

That of course does not constitute proof.

>Whatever one thinks of
> that, Creole grammars certainly represent a sort of baseline,

minimal

> grammar. And they never fail to include personal pronouns.

Which are present in the languages the creoles are constructed from.
And if creole grammars are not based on existing languages, a lot of
articles I've seen should be scrapped.

>

> Sign language is not based on spoken languages at all.
>

Of course they are. On the language of the speaker (or reader) who
designed it.

> In the case of NicSL, the transition from "signed pidgin" to a real

sign

> language is illustrated as follows:
> (http://www.indiana.edu/~langacq/E105/Nicaragua.html)
>
> -It was noticeable at once that the younger children used signs in

a more

> -nuanced way than the older students. For example, the teen-age

pidgin

> -signers at Villa Libertad had a basic gesture for "speak" --

opening and

> -closing four fingers and a thumb in front of the mouth. The younger
> -children used the same sign, but modulated it, opening their

fingers at

> -the position of the speaker and closing them at the position of the
> -addressee. To Kegl, this apparently small difference had enormous
> -implications. "This was verb agreement," she says, "and they were

all

> -using it fluently."
>
>

I think "verb agreement" is a misnomer in a language that has no
pronouns. Obviously the writer is (sloppily) thinking of a language
like Spanish (or Basque(?) with double agreement).

Torsten