Re: Albanian = Illyrian (1)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski
<piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:

> 17-11-03 10:15, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:
>
> > I think that the best way to prove that Albanians are descendents

of

> > Illyrians should be place names, used as by Weigand, as by his
> > imitators to deny autochthony of Albanians in today's territories.
> > I will prefer to start with first letter of the alphabet:
> >
> > Arkthos, attested form, today Arta. Dropping of the stops and
> > evolution kt:ht:t, noticed also by Paul Kretschmer is only

Albanian

> > characteristic.
> >
> > Astibos, today Shtip could be explained only through Albanian
> > soundlaw: aphaeresis of unstressed /a/ and evolution of

cluster /st/

> >> /sht/ (cf. aphaeresis of unstressed /a/ in: Lat. amicus > Alb.
> > mik 'friend', Lat. angustus > Alb. (i,e) ngushtë; cf. evolution

of

> > cluster /st/ > /sht/ in: castellum > kështjel (Buzuku),

kështjellë,

> > Lat. statura > shtat, also mentioned angustuse above etc.).
> >
> > Avlona, today Vlora, attested in Geg Vlona, vlonjat 'inhabitant

of

> > the Vlora' through aphaeresis of /a/, etc.
>
> Would the names be any different if the Albanians borrowed them

from a

> local variety of Late Latin? As you show yourself, both vowel loss

and

> st > sht occur regularly in loans from Latin, which meant that

while

> those "soundlaws" are indeed Albanian, their date is post-Roman.

[AK]It's not true: Some soundlaws continue to affect also Greek and
Latin loans too, like evolution of cluster /st/ > /sht/ (cf. Alb.
shtalb 'baby corn' < *st-, zero-grade form of PIE *sta: 'to stand' +
*alb-, bilabial extended root of PIE *al- 'to grow, nurish',
<mashtrapë> 'jug, tankard' < *ambhi- (mbë- > m-) + *ag^s- (>ash) + -
ter (comparative suffix) + *ap- 'water').

> Actually, if ancient Auló:na were an authentic Proto-Albanian name,

it

> would have developed into something like *alé~na > *lênë/*lërë. The
> modern form shows that it was borrowed rather late as [awlona] or
> [avlona] with an entirely non-Albanian reflex of initial /au/.

[AK] Reflexes of PIE diphthong *au: In the words, where this
diphthong is stressed, normal outcome is /a/: Lat. aurum > ar 'gold',
Lat. laurus > Alb. lar 'laurel', Lat. gaudio > gaz 'joy, happiness',
but when this diphthong is unstressed, its endure aphaeresis: Lat.
Augustus > gusht 'August', Lat. avunculus > ungj 'uncle', etc.)

-ona as prefix (probably shared with Celtic) is very present in
Illyrian toponymy: Emona (today Lubjana), Salona (today Solin),
Narona (today Norin), Skardona (today Skradin) - even in XV century
we have evidence of its use in Kosova: Grabanica < Grabana + -ica,
besides Grabona. So, I don't see any reason why such suffix didn't
persist and resist also in early times. Form Aulo:na, like you
present it was never attested.

As for Arkthos, -rkt- > -rt- is not uniquely Albanian. Such a
reduction of a

> triconsonantal cluster is a trivial phenomenon; even many
> English-speakers pronounce <arctic> as "artic". This pronunciation

could

> in fact be regarded as historically justified, cf. Gk. arktikos -->

Late

> Latin articus > Old French artique --> Middle English artik (the

modern

> word is a learned refashioning thereof). I'm quoting these forms to

show

> that the simplification may just as well be Latin/Romance.

[AK] But we are not talking for England or France, but for territory
inhabited by Albanians in the past.

>
> Piotr

Konushevci