Re: Pre-Germanic speculation

From: tgpedersen
Message: 26747
Date: 2003-10-31

>
>
> > It is clearly non-IE as many other toponyms for this simple
reason:
> > It cannot be found any matchup with an IE root that works.
> > What holds true for Samsø holds equally true for any other similar
> > item.
>
> OK, so I tell you what I think about this type of placename. I may
be wrong,
> but my opinion is based on my familiarity with English toponyms.
The type
> ...s-ø looks very similar to English island names such as Selsey,
Mersea or
> Bardsea/Bardsey. They are certainly not substratal but consist of a
genitive
> plus OE -i:(e)g 'island' = Danish -ø (very often the genitive is
formed from
> an owner's name, e.g. Beornre:des i:eg, telescoped into modern
Bardsea).
> Since OIc. Sámr, ODan. Sam is an attested personal name, we can
regard the
> Sams- part as a fossilised genitive -- Sam's Island. Now the common
> adjective <sámr> _is_ connected with Saami: it means 'swarthy, dark-
skinned'
> (the Norse stereotype of a Lapp), but of course it doesn't mean
that the
> name was given by Finno-Ugrians or even that any of them ever lived
in that
> area. It was a Norse name and was brought to Denmark by Norse-
speakers.
>

And what might the Norse-speakers then have meant by calling
it "swarthy, dark-skinned island"?


Aage Houken: Håndbog i danske stednavne
G Island names

"
The island names belong to the difficult names, the lingustic origin
of which is still debated. What also contributes to increase the
difficulties is the circumstance that many island names now
compounded with the ending -ø, originally were non-compounded, and in
our time it is not always possible to discern the word at hand, since
it has perished. Such non-compounded nameforms bear witness that the
word in question is very old. Earlier there has been a tendency to
look for personal names in the island names, i.e. the owner af the
island in question, but it is obviously quite unlikely that big
islands like Als, Mors and Samsø should have belonged to one single
person. This has entailed that in the interpretations one must often
seek recourse in learned and ingenious constructions, which in
general will be ignored here.
"
and
"
Samsø, Adam of Bremen (c. 1075) *Samse, icel. Samsey, *1231 Samsø ...
No certain interpretation can be given.
"

Bent Jørgensen: Stednavneordbog
"
*ca 1075 Samse, *ca 1200 Samsa (latinised form), Sampsø, *1231 Samsø,
locally [sam's]. The name of the island must be an originally
monosyllabic ODan. *Sams but is apart from that of unknown origin.
"


I should add about the possible ownership of Samsø, that it is well
known that the island has two quite different dialects, Nord-samsisk
and Syd-samsisk, of which the former is related to Molsisk to the
north of Samsø. Obviously, the island cannot have belonged to just
one group of people, in Danish-speaking time.


Torsten