--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Carrasquer wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:36:39 +0100, alex <alxmoeller@...> wrote:
[...]
>> Romanian:
>>
>> pantoful mamei mele
>> pantoful mamei tale
>> pantoful mamei sale
>>
>> That is strange. There is "mele, tãle, sale" the possessive
>> plural instead of the expected sg. "mea, ta, sa".
Expected by whom?! In principle, the forms of possessives are
to be systematically learned during the first years of school,
along with a bunch of grammar issues one should have already in
mind when using one's own tongue (not mentioning etymological
issues).
>> Should be this explained how? Etymologically?
>
> It's not a plural. It's an oblique. And this phenomenon is not
> confined to possessive pronouns but to practically all nouns,
> pronouns, adjectives and determiners: the oblique form of
> feminines is equal to the plural form.
Actually, Alex should be aware of nouns, adjectives, pronouns and
determiners declination in Romanian since was taught in school. I
think of little use would be explaining "casus rectus & obliquus",
it's simpler to remind that there are basically two forms in
Romanian declination, one is N/A (Nominative/Accusative) and the
other is G/D (Genitive/Dative). The rule about G/D articulated form
(singular & feminine) being linked to N/A plural by adding the -i
was equally taught in school (though with little effect on some
ex-pupils): "o casã / douã case / casei", "o scarã / douã scãri /
scãrii", etc.; that is to account on your example:
> E.g. Marea Neagrã, oblique Mãrii Negre "of the Black Sea" (where
> mãri- and negre are just like the plural forms).
Let's put that simply: those pronouns are in genitive case, so
their form is the one required by declination rules. The same goes
for other Romances, though noticing that possession is expressed
through particles and not by modifying pronoun's form:
Fr. "la chaussure _de_ ma mère"
"la chaussure _de_ ta mère"
"la chaussure _de_ sa mère"
It. "la scarpa _della_ mia madre"
"la scarpa _della_ tua madre"
"la scarpa _della_ sua madre"
Cat. "la sabata _de_ la meva mare"
"la sabata _de_ la teva mare"
"la sabata _de_ la seva mare"
etc.
Regards,
Marius Iacomi