[tied] Terminology (Re: Piotr-)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex" wrote:

> m_iacomi wrote:
>
>> Of course it's the same substratal word. Alex doesn't mention the
>> Aromanian "bardzu" meaning `light grey`, having its correspondent
>> in dialectal Dacoromanian "barz"; "barzã" is nothing else than its
>> feminine form (substantivated for that white-looking bird). Naming
>> things in the nature according to their colour is quite common in
>> Romanian too: thus we have "ro$ie" for `tomato` or "vânãtã" for
>> `egg-plant` (`aubergine`).
>
> I was thinking of that but there are the problems with "breaz"
> (piebald) and there should be a very unusual metathesis in one of
> these words: barzã versus breaz.

The word is from Bulgarian "breaz" (which could maybe be linked
with the same root as Albanian "(i) bardhë". Diphthong /ea/ in
that position can not arise from a substratal word.

> The semantic evolution of piebald to the meaning "better" appears
> sustainable in the animal world where one must be the chief, the
> piebald one, the better one, the one who is leading the herd.

BS. The semantical evolution is through the distinctive sign
making a person special (noted as in "a fi cunoscut ca un cal
breaz" -- `to be known like a piebald horse`). Nothing to do
with animal world.
And, BTW, the word does _not_ mean `better` (comparative) but
`wise, important, noted`.

> If there has been a methatesis, then just in very prehistoric
> time I should say.

You should not.

> If your barza= white looking bird,

... as _proven_ by Aromanian and regional Dacoromanian forms...

> then what means in your mind "bãrzãun"?

It means `bumble bee`. An insect making some "BUZZ!" noise.

> About colours: we use colours to denominate vegetables, but we
> do not use them for denominating birds, do we?

Generally not, because the number of colours is limited while
the number of birds' species is larger enough. Though in this
particular case, people just did name the bird looking at its'
general colour. Calling biological things with colours' name is
not unusual in Romanian and calling this particular bird making
reference to its' colour is common in several languages. So
there is no reason preventing Romanians to call it in a similar
manner: it is perfectly possible and it's what happened.

Marius Iacomi